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Thread: Grading Coins

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    1,561

    Default Grading Coins

    Ok, i'm sure this has been asked and answered a million and 1 times. But, I can't seem to locate the answer here and i'm kinda lazy too.

    Here goes.. it's a 2 fold question:

    1. I've noticed that when you buy a proof from the US MINT they are not graded. Does the dealers have the coins graded and then sell them?

    2. How come some dealers online sell the exact graded coin for say 212.00 for a 2010 AGE 1/10 MS70 and you can see them on EBAY for 180.00. I understand the online dealer needs to make a buck but, you would think the online dealer was getting the better price since they buy in (i'm assuming) bigger bulks. Can someone give me a quick tutorial on this. I mean I would love to buy 100 coins and sell them on EBAY for a premium over what I bought them for. Am I looking at the wrong Online store? Does some1 have the inside to the best prices? Can you throw a brother a bone here.. Keep this in mind when you reply. I'm at least 100 miles from a local coin dealer. So that is out. Help plz. Would love to start making a few dollars on coins. I have my stash which I will not touch.
    A wise man once said.... Just investigate with an open mind..............choose wisely...........there are no do overs if you choose wrong.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    884

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    one reason is many people including myself believe grading of modern bullion is a joke to begin with .......coin grading is better left for older actual coins that were minted for circulation.......why should anyone care wether a piece of bullion fresh of the mint is ms 70 or 69 ...I sure don't but yes it is true some do.......the only value at all I see in graded bullion is authentication if it is graded by one of the top two companies pcgs or ngc.
    this may explain why after they leave a dealer graded bullion becomes worth less...kind of like driving a new car of the lot

  3. #3

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    I notice your sig says "Water is the greatest commodity."

    Well I just checked on the rates and at tap prices it is going for $0.86 per ton.

    With silver going at $930,764.11 per ton that makes the water to silver ratio about 1,082,283.84:1.

    Do you think that ratio is going to drop significantly in the future?

  4. #4
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighInBC View Post
    I notice your sig says "Water is the greatest commodity."

    Well I just checked on the rates and at tap prices it is going for $0.86 per ton.

    With silver going at $930,764.11 per ton that makes the water to silver ratio about 1,082,283.84:1.

    Do you think that ratio is going to drop significantly in the future?
    If I were to guess.. No
    But, man can we buy a crap load of water with our silver.. hehehehe.. Anyway, my point is that without water everything else is pretty worthless to us if we die from dehydration. I hear it's a pretty ugly way to die too.. yikes!! Maybe I should say "precious commodity".
    A wise man once said.... Just investigate with an open mind..............choose wisely...........there are no do overs if you choose wrong.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chazmo View Post
    If I were to guess.. No
    But, man can we buy a crap load of water with our silver.. hehehehe.. Anyway, my point is that without water everything else is pretty worthless to us if we die from dehydration. I hear it's a pretty ugly way to die too.. yikes!! Maybe I should say "precious commodity".

    I'd go with something like "Water is our greatest resource" but that's me. Some might consider air our greatest resource though. Not that I'm anti-air, of course.
    $x1
    You can't take it with you, so give it to me and I'll bring it along when I go there.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    897

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chazmo View Post
    ...Anyway, my point is that without water everything else is pretty worthless to us if we die from dehydration...
    Wouldn't oxygen be more precious than water...


    One Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch3479 View Post
    I'd go with something like "Water is our greatest resource" but that's me. Some might consider air our greatest resource though. Not that I'm anti-air, of course.
    Dang, Stretch beat me to it...

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by laredo7mm View Post
    Wouldn't oxygen be more precious than water...

    Hard to have water without oxygen tbh

  8. #8

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    Back to the question.

    Grading is nothing more than sorting out the coins by condition.

    MSxx is mint state, for "circulating coins"
    PFxx is for proof coins.

    Anyone can grade and then encapsulate a coin. One dealer sells all his stuff as MS70 (The highest on the scale).

    Uncirculated coins range from MS60 up to MS70 (Virtually impossible grade).

    First, realistically, unless is it PCGS or NGC, ignore it (yes there are a few others, but for the sake of keeping it simple)

    Here are some prices on a "common date" Morgan, an 1884

    Good 4: $24 Worn and Tired
    Fine 12: $26 Looks OK but worn
    Extremely Fine 40: $28 Orginal luster, little wear
    Almost Uncirculated 55: $30 You probably could not tell it from uncirulated
    Uncirculated 62: $40 Never used as "money" but it is 3 grades up from the lowest level of uncirculated. Weaker strike, bag marks, etc.
    Unciculated 63: $53 Nice looking coin, fewer marks, stronger strike
    Uncirculated 64: $75 Really nice looking, very few marks
    Uncirculated 65: $330 Glistens, virtually mark free
    Uncirculated 66: $900 WOW, Dynamite !!!
    Uncirculated 67: $5250 So hot, it would burn your hand

    Now there is also a modifier called prooflike, where the coin, although not minted as a proof (special dies, polished blanks, etc.) exhibits traits of a proof coin, mostly mirror like surfaces, etc.

    For a prooflike in MS66, the price jumps from $900 to $3000. For deep, mirror prooflike, in MS66, it jumps from $900 to $10,000, and PCGS has not graded ANY as MS67.

    That is why collectors scour old collections, rolls, bags, etc. for that needle in a haystack, where the person bought a GEM BU coin 40 years ago, just sitting in an album that can be bought for $40 and submitted and come back a $900 or $2500 coin.

    Some people believe that standards at PCGS have loosened a little, so a coin that graded MS65 20 years ago, might grade MS66 now, or get a prooflike modifier. The old holders were light green, and on ebay you see OGH (old green holder) where you are buying a chance it will grade higher.

    Dealers will send in an "origninal roll" and are praying for 1 or 2 that will grade MS65 or MS66. The rest that come back as MS64 or less are put in the discount box. At a coin show, you will see BOXES of MS64 Morgans at a flat rate, like $45 each or 3 for $120, and you can pick up 20 or so different dates/mint marks for a nominal premium over just a BULK worn Morgan.

    While I do buy some silver for "stacking" I also collect for the numismatic value, and my mistake was buying lower grade (MS62 or MS63) when I should have bought higher grades of the commons right off. I am slowly building my collection of PCGS graded, all MS65 or MS66, that I will never finish, but they sure are gorgeous coins. For the common dates, the price uptick from MS63 (mostly a yuckly looking uncirculated) to an MS65 or MS66 is not that much more. The prices above are the list prices, not what you could actually buy them for (think discount), and this is ONLY PCGS graded, not slippery sam's grading company.

    Remember how Morgans were made: High speed steam presses. Dumped into hoppers, Poured into canvas or burlap bags weighing around 80 pounds, bags tossed on top of each other to the celings, transported in horse drawn wagons on cobblestones, dirt, and other non smooth surfaces, tossed in rail cars for transport, etc. A coin that might have been a MS67 Deep proof like strike might have lasted 3 seconds before another coin nailed it in the hopper, leaving a nice set of railroad tracks (the reeded edge) right across the face, knocking it down to an MS64. Another one, also an MS67, headed off to the bank, and when out on the streets, now down to an AU55 on day 1

    Contrast that to an ASE which is never tossed in the hopper, and lives life in comfort. They are all going to be MS69 or MS70's, so unless you just want big boy bragging rights, why pay the $$ for an MS70 on a bullion coin.

  9. #9

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    You can live a lot longer without water, than you can without air. My vote is for oxygen. Let's put a poll together guys...

  10. #10

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    Basic Survival Rule of 3's

    3 minutes without Air
    3 hours without shelter
    3 days without water
    3 weeks without food

    Matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

    He who calls himself a master is still the student. He who claims he has found the way is surely lost. He who says he has the answers is asking the wrong questions. He who claims to be a wise man is surely a fool.- Unknown

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