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Thread: Anyone have/had a lead-filled 100 ounce silver bar?

  1. #11

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    https://www.kitcomm.com/attachment.p...8&d=1191243249

    not 100 oz, but pure Lead/Tin/solder watever
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feFR-9_eevM

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by About AG View Post
    Ah, I had missed that one! Would you mind if we used that picture on our page?
    Not at all if it helps to educate, espicaly those that seem to think 'It aint possible' the dealer didn't mind me takeing the pic.

    Very well done isn't it? And that is why I think there may be others out there. By the way If I'm not misstaken he caught the fake by the ring test, said it didn't sound like the rest he bought of the seller.

    Heck send me a PM W/ E-address and I will send you the .jpg. I transfered it from my phone, but it is in .jpg format on my pooter.

  3. #13

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    In the age of cooked books and such, historical info is good to find. Unless of course it was being cooked back through out time. So in a sense, in the grander picture of things, all of a sudden we are trying to get a more accurate account of gold and silver above ground? Books having been cooked for generations? I seriously dont think anyone is thinking there may be a few hundred unaccounted for tons of gold or silver stashed away out there by someone who did a bait and switch ages ago and has the "real" stuff. This is like watching a garguantua sized shell game with about 100 years worth of hands mixing things up while everyone thinks they know which shell the gold bar is in.
    But here is some usefull data from a little while ago, as reference perhaps..


    Also, I think China may be selling some fake stuff, well, you know they are silver in "color", hence silver bars. And dont think I dont want a few pandas drilled, but the hedge is, who wants to spoil such a beautifull coin. Sacrifice 25 or 30 dollars or a limited beautifull panda coin. Like wanting a hole drilled in your head, right? what a hedge. I have a few gold pandas shipped from china. I have one that reallly just doesnt sit well in my gut. heck of a deal on it though, i might want to upload a pic of it and see what you all think. Then again, I would hate to have it drilled...
    http://www.fake-gold-bars.co.uk/how/C8.htm
    Last edited by RFID trumps; 03-12-2010 at 11:43 AM.
    In order to reason logically, a person must believe in laws of logic. However, laws of logic are immaterial and therefore cannot be observed by the senses. So, belief in laws of logic is a type of faith.

  4. #14

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    First it definitely would not weigh right. Second if it was drilled and plugged there should be some sign of plugging and polishing.

    I suppose they could have dipped it in silver after plugging but then you would notice that in the engraving/stamp unless you reproduced the stamp/engraving, not just reproduce it but reproduce it in exactly the place it was before.

    I think anyone who does DYODD would have found something on this bar suspicious.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. Thorin Oakenshield

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFID trumps View Post
    I have a few gold pandas shipped from china. I have one that reallly just doesnt sit well in my gut. heck of a deal on it though, i might want to upload a pic of it and see what you all think. Then again, I would hate to have it drilled...
    Those are easy -- just weigh it, and check the diameter and width. The fake gold pandas I've seen were the correct weight and diameter, but they were thicker (~60% thicker I believe) than the real ones. If it weighs correctly, and the width and thickness are correct, it's real gold (or tungsten, but that's not worth worrying about for panda coins). Silver is the tough one, as the weight and dimensions of a fake can be correct.

  6. #16
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    On my last trip to town (the last dip) they were still on display, if we have another dip I will make another trip for a buy, I will ask to see the ends and take a few more pics. I don't know when that will be we are in the calving season and I am needed here, but if we do have a down turn I will try to get you some more information and pic's.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twostaff View Post
    First it definitely would not weigh right.
    Not so -- see the page I'm working on (the link should be a couple posts above this one). I've calculated that an 80% lead and 20% tin alloy would nearly perfectly match the density of silver. Less sophisticated versions could use pure lead and a bit of air to make it exact (but those would be easier to detect).

    Once the fake bar is made, a bit can be shaved off to make the weight exact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twostaff View Post
    Second if it was drilled and plugged there should be some sign of plugging and polishing.
    True, but they aren't easy to detect. The one highly trusted report we've seen indicates that "Visually inspecting and weighing the bars provided no indication of adulteration." We're going to see if we can get more details on that (hoping for pictures of the ENDS of some of these bars).

    Quote Originally Posted by Twostaff View Post
    I suppose they could have dipped it in silver after plugging but then you would notice that in the engraving/stamp unless you reproduced the stamp/engraving, not just reproduce it but reproduce it in exactly the place it was before.
    Just the one end gets silver added to it, which covers the lead at the end of the bar, and makes surface testing show it as pure silver.

  8. #18
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    I’ve seen half dollars cut in half horizontally hollowed out to accommodate a dime inside then snapped back together like the back of a watch and there is no outward sign of a seam. a skilled machinist would be able to do this and you would not even have a clue it has been altered, just because you can’t envision how it could be done does not mean it can't be done. We have some of the best mill and lathe operators in the world here. (And out of this world) our local college has produced more astronauts than any other school anywhere, and they have a truly world class machine shop. This faking of a bar would be child’s play.

  9. #19

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    All it takes is someone with the right skill set and the right equipment and they could make it almost undetectable. Counterfeiting and fakes are a HUGE international problem and pretty much everything that is of value is at risk. Everything from software to art to pirated movies to 100 ounce silver bars. Anyone who thinks that such things don't exist or that large silver bars are somehow immune from such threats are simply living in la la land.

    In all honesty, while this is definitely a real problem, its not one that I would ever worry about. Odds are if I ever do get one of these bars, I will never realize it and neither will the person I wind up selling it too. It will just remain in circulation and will still be valued as if its 100% real silver. The only way it will be detected is if it winds up in the hands of a skilled silver investor who is adamant about testing all of his purchases. I am not that person so again this is just not something I will ever concern myself with. Counterfeit Panda's or anything else sold by China is a whole different ballgame, one that I wont play anymore. I stopped buying Panda's and refuse to purchase any PM's, or anything else for that matter, coming from China.
    Last edited by OrangeCrush; 03-12-2010 at 01:41 PM.

  10. #20
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    Crush, all true, with one exception. And that is if when you do sell if the purchaser believes you are intentionally trying to deceive you would be open to prosecution. In the case I described earlier the only thing that saved the seller is the fact the purchaser and the prosecutor did not believe the seller was trying to knowingly pass phony silver. Now I know this is not your point but I wanted to get that out there. Thanks for a realistic and factual reply.

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