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Thread: Numastic Eagles

  1. #11

    Default Agree with the Consensus

    FYI - For a long time nobody even graded bullion coins.
    Then somebody came up with the Marketing Plan. Found a market buying in to it, and that's when most of the junior authenticators started business hustling a service for Numismatic AND Bullion Coinage.
    Gb

    College of Hardknocks - The most expensive education you can fail. The most rewarding when you succeed.

    In the history of Mankind only 5% of the PEOPLE have been considered FREE in some form. Meaning 95% of all Mankind through out history have been SLAVES.

    "The future ain't what it used to be". - Yogi Berra

  2. #12

    Default

    I have to disagree with most of the comments on here. I do agree that if your in this for investment purposes that one should definitely concentrate on straight bullion instead of slabbed and graded bullion as you will get far more for your money. With that being said there is a substantial market for graded eagles so to just write off this section of the market as some hoax or some worthless investment is simply a mistake. This part of the market isnt going anywhere as it appeals to both investors and coin collectors and the value of some of these coins are only going to increase over time.

    The key is to know which ones to buy if your doing it for investment purposes. For example given how many eagles were minted in 2009 its pretty much common sense that even slabbed 2009 eagles are going to be so common that any increase in value is INCREDIBLY unlikely, short of you selling to an idiot. On the other hand the 1995 W Eagle (W for West Point mint) has absolutely exploded in value and in hindsight was one of the best investments one could have made in the last 20 years of produced coins. So go ahead and try explaining to the people who purchased that 1995 10th Anniversary Eagle Proof Set that they were wasting their money. Just don't be surprised when they laugh at you. My father purchased 2 of them and they now reside in my sons collection. Just imagine how much they will be worth when he hands them down to his son. Thankfully my father didn't believe as some of you believe, that slabbed bullion is a foolish purchase.

    Obviously the 1995 W is a very rare exception and the majority of Eagles, even those that are proofs or with mint marks, are nowhere near as valuable as the 95W. The point is that you can make money on this part of the market and some of these coins do in fact have considerable value and considerable potential. You just have to know what to buy and what not to buy.

    Overall I pretty much stay away from modern slabbed coins. I do have one complete set of slabbed MS70 eagles that I purchased for myself through the years and I will continue to buy what is needed to keep it complete and up to date but that's as far as I will go. Slabbed St. Gaudens Gold Eagle's on the other hand are my weakness and I will continue to add to that collection as time goes on.

  3. #13

    Default

    There is no right answer to this.

    Some things to keep in mind:

    #1 A-1 PRIORITY NUMERO UNO!!!
    Buy the coin, not the holder!

    SOme people believe bullion is bullion, from spotless, BU MS70 proofs to lumps of melted metal, worth its metal content. period. I would love to buy a 1933 Eagle for melt price

    On the other hand, slabbing really became popular in the 80s when wall street was looking for a new bubble...errrr investment resource...for awhile they latched on to rare coins, but they knew nothing about them but heard that some pennies were worth $100,000 and they just HAD to get in on that. SO how to invest in something you know jack squat about, well have someone else do all the work and research and use their expertise and then have the coin encased with the "prospectus" clearly labeled in the case.

    They bubbled and burned through that in the early 90s. Now we have 3 grading services that are still somewhat reputable and all the others. Anything in a NGC, PCGS, or ANAC slab should be reasonably graded.

    All other grading services their grades should just be utterly ignored. I see MS70 EVERYTHING from these other services with not just contact marks obvious in the fields but scratches that other services would send back as damaged! Not to say the coins are bad in these holders, these holders often have very nice coins that sometimes are even the grade on the label

    Now slabbing bullion? well, make up your own mind on that. Unless you are selling to Wall Street or someone who just buys slabs and has no knowledge of what they are buying or you get an "early releases" MS70 that is a little special IMO slabbing or paying extra for slabbed bullion is not worth it.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. — Thorin Oakenshield

  4. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeCrush View Post
    I have to disagree with most of the comments on here. I do agree that if your in this for investment purposes that one should definitely concentrate on straight bullion instead of slabbed and graded bullion as you will get far more for your money. With that being said there is a substantial market for graded eagles so to just write off this section of the market as some hoax or some worthless investment is simply a mistake. This part of the market isnt going anywhere as it appeals to both investors and coin collectors and the value of some of these coins are only going to increase over time.

    The key is to know which ones to buy if your doing it for investment purposes. For example given how many eagles were minted in 2009 its pretty much common sense that even slabbed 2009 eagles are going to be so common that any increase in value is INCREDIBLY unlikely, short of you selling to an idiot. On the other hand the 1995 W Eagle (W for West Point mint) has absolutely exploded in value and in hindsight was one of the best investments one could have made in the last 20 years of produced coins. So go ahead and try explaining to the people who purchased that 1995 10th Anniversary Eagle Proof Set that they were wasting their money. Just don't be surprised when they laugh at you. My father purchased 2 of them and they now reside in my sons collection. Just imagine how much they will be worth when he hands them down to his son. Thankfully my father didn't believe as some of you believe, that slabbed bullion is a foolish purchase.

    Obviously the 1995 W is a very rare exception and the majority of Eagles, even those that are proofs or with mint marks, are nowhere near as valuable as the 95W. The point is that you can make money on this part of the market and some of these coins do in fact have considerable value and considerable potential. You just have to know what to buy and what not to buy.

    Overall I pretty much stay away from modern slabbed coins. I do have one complete set of slabbed MS70 eagles that I purchased for myself through the years and I will continue to buy what is needed to keep it complete and up to date but that's as far as I will go. Slabbed St. Gaudens Gold Eagle's on the other hand are my weakness and I will continue to add to that collection as time goes on.
    Comparing the Proof 95-W ASE with a mintage of 30,125 and only sold as part of the AGE proof set that year to common, made for bullion, ASEs is like comparing apples to oranges. Also I don't believe that slabbing even the '95-W increases it's value. It's so scarce and so much in demand that it'll sell with or without the opinion and plastic of some 3rd party grader. In fact if I were to buy a '95-W today I would want it in the OGP with the rest of the set. JMO

    HH
    Always Searching for OBW Rolls ! ! !

  5. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeCrush View Post
    …On the other hand the 1995 W Eagle (W for West Point mint) has absolutely exploded in value and in hindsight was one of the best investments one could have made in the last 20 years of produced coins. So go ahead and try explaining to the people who purchased that 1995 10th Anniversary Eagle Proof Set that they were wasting their money. Just don't be surprised when they laugh at you. My father purchased 2 of them and they now reside in my sons collection. Just imagine how much they will be worth when he hands them down to his son. Thankfully my father didn't believe as some of you believe, that slabbed bullion is a foolish purchase.

    …

    Overall I pretty much stay away from modern slabbed coins. I do have one complete set of slabbed MS70 eagles that I purchased for myself through the years and I will continue to buy what is needed to keep it complete and up to date but that's as far as I will go. Slabbed St. Gaudens Gold Eagle's on the other hand are my weakness and I will continue to add to that collection as time goes on.
    I didn't see this before I posted, I heartily agree!
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. — Thorin Oakenshield

  6. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeCrush View Post
    I have to disagree with most of the comments on here. I do agree that if your in this for investment purposes that one should definitely concentrate on straight bullion instead of slabbed and graded bullion as you will get far more for your money. With that being said there is a substantial market for graded eagles so to just write off this section of the market as some hoax or some worthless investment is simply a mistake. This part of the market isnt going anywhere as it appeals to both investors and coin collectors and the value of some of these coins are only going to increase over time.

    The key is to know which ones to buy if your doing it for investment purposes. For example given how many eagles were minted in 2009 its pretty much common sense that even slabbed 2009 eagles are going to be so common that any increase in value is INCREDIBLY unlikely, short of you selling to an idiot. On the other hand the 1995 W Eagle (W for West Point mint) has absolutely exploded in value and in hindsight was one of the best investments one could have made in the last 20 years of produced coins. So go ahead and try explaining to the people who purchased that 1995 10th Anniversary Eagle Proof Set that they were wasting their money. Just don't be surprised when they laugh at you. My father purchased 2 of them and they now reside in my sons collection. Just imagine how much they will be worth when he hands them down to his son. Thankfully my father didn't believe as some of you believe, that slabbed bullion is a foolish purchase.

    Obviously the 1995 W is a very rare exception and the majority of Eagles, even those that are proofs or with mint marks, are nowhere near as valuable as the 95W. The point is that you can make money on this part of the market and some of these coins do in fact have considerable value and considerable potential. You just have to know what to buy and what not to buy.

    Overall I pretty much stay away from modern slabbed coins. I do have one complete set of slabbed MS70 eagles that I purchased for myself through the years and I will continue to buy what is needed to keep it complete and up to date but that's as far as I will go. Slabbed St. Gaudens Gold Eagle's on the other hand are my weakness and I will continue to add to that collection as time goes on.
    I just want to set the record straight for myself. Yes slabbed rare bullion is a pretty good investment, but buying a slabbed 2009 is pointless as there's just way too many. Slabbed coins are only a good investment if it's a rare coin. I bought a 1/10 ounce gold maple at a coin show, slabbed by NGC ONLY because it's got the 2001 viking privy mark. These viking marked maples were only sold in sets and only 850 were minted, so even though it's been broken from the set to be slabbed, there's still only 850 of these and that's not a lot when it comes to coins. This is just one example of slabbed bullion being a worthwhile investment, among many others.
    -- If you forget that you've forgotten something you needed to remember, you never forgot it--

  7. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by halfhunter View Post
    Comparing the Proof 95-W ASE with a mintage of 30,125 and only sold as part of the AGE proof set that year to common, made for bullion, ASEs is like comparing apples to oranges. Also I don't believe that slabbing even the '95-W increases it's value. It's so scarce and so much in demand that it'll sell with or without the opinion and plastic of some 3rd party grader. In fact if I were to buy a '95-W today I would want it in the OGP with the rest of the set. JMO

    HH
    You obviously don't read very well at all.

    As for your opinion that the 95W isn't worth more slabbed, your entitled to your opinion no matter how incorrect that opinion may be. I have actually contacted multiple coin dealers regarding the 2 sets we have as I have been unsure whether or not to get them slabbed and each dealer I talked too said the value goes up if you get it slabbed and the amount it goes up increases substantially with the higher grades. It will absolutely sell with or without a slab but it will absolutely sell for more if its slabbed and for a whole lot more if its slabbed with a high grade.

    Quote Originally Posted by silversurfer28 View Post
    I just want to set the record straight for myself. Yes slabbed rare bullion is a pretty good investment, but buying a slabbed 2009 is pointless as there's just way too many.
    And this is exactly what I said in my post. Its all about knowing what to buy and what not to buy.

    As for my original post, I said that the only Modern slabbed coins I collect are the 1 set of MS70 eagles that I have. That's actually incorrect as I forgot about the South African Natura series. I don't really consider them bullion but they are. I have been collecting them for a couple of years now. They are a modern coin but the good thing about them is they are produced in extremely low numbers. Some mintage's, like the 95 Rhino, are as low as 200.

    So to rephrase - I pretty much stay away from modern slabbed coins, except for the South African Natura Series and my 1 set of MS70 Eagles.
    Last edited by OrangeCrush; 03-12-2010 at 07:25 PM.

  8. #18

    Default

    OK Argue all you want about the added value of slabbing, the original intention was to guarantee the coin was authentic and if nothing else except for a very few rare counterfeits, grading by the major three is very succesful at guaranteeing your coin is authentic and has not been cleaned improperly or been damaged.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. — Thorin Oakenshield

  9. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Twostaff View Post
    On the other hand, slabbing really became popular in the 80s when wall street was looking for a new bubble...errrr investment resource...for awhile they latched on to rare coins, but they knew nothing about them but heard that some pennies were worth $100,000 and they just HAD to get in on that. SO how to invest in something you know jack squat about, well have someone else do all the work and research and use their expertise and then have the coin encased with the "prospectus" clearly labeled in the case.

    They bubbled and burned through that in the early 90s. Now we have 3 grading services that are still somewhat reputable and all the others. Anything in a NGC, PCGS, or ANAC slab should be reasonably graded..
    While it is true that Wall Street, or more precisely Merrill Lynch and Kidder Peabody, started putting money into rare coins, they only invested a few million dollars. That's not enough to have had any serious effect on the market or the success of the grading services. Besides the experiment was an utter failure and they got out of the market as quickly as they got in. All in all Wall Street had very little if any effect on the market or on the success of the grading services.

    Grading taking off had really nothing to do with Wall Street and everything to do with the fact that it was a brilliant idea that appealed to everyone involved in the market, even the small time collectors that only purchased a couple coins a year. In other words it was a great idea and it was ultimately successful because it was a service that people wanted and were more than willing to pay for. This is why its been a huge hit in a lot of other markets as well including comics, sports collectibles, etc. The bottom line is that grading services have been a huge hit in the collectible markets and that is because it is a brilliant idea.


    Quote Originally Posted by Twostaff View Post
    OK Argue all you want about the added value of slabbing, the original intention was to guarantee the coin was authentic and if nothing else except for a very few rare counterfeits, grading by the major three is very succesful at guaranteeing your coin is authentic and has not been cleaned improperly or been damaged.
    I am not arguing as there is nothing to argue about. Slabbing increases value in the market and that is a fact. This is just how the market is nowadays and its especially true with the really valuable and rare coins and with those coins the amount it increases in value is directly proportional to the grade it receives.

    It doesn't matter what the original intention was. It only matters what the real world effect has been. The real world effect has been just as much about value (Grade) as legitimacy of authenticity. In all honesty if grading services were really just about legitimizing authenticity then why would they have even brought a grading system into it? The fact of the matter is its always been about both.
    Last edited by OrangeCrush; 03-12-2010 at 07:31 PM.

  10. #20

    Default

    You obviously don't read very well at all.
    I believe that my reading skills are at least as good as yours.

    Why do you insist on making personal attacks on people who state an opinion that differs from yours ? ! ? !

    HH
    Always Searching for OBW Rolls ! ! !

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