A Secondary Economy

[t00nces2]

So, what is going to be your reaction when the Fed tells you the Dollar is no longer the coin of the realm and you have to move your money into the new world issued digital currency. Your money will be worth X if you do it by Y, but for every month after Y you will get X - 10%*Months after Y? You all realize that is a way to track and control your spending and give you a haircut right off the top.

I think you crypto haters should just consider funding and learning the exchange of crypto as a way of circumventing the government approved monetary system. Start learning how to transfer value for value between consenting sellers and buyers. Learn about different wallets and different ways of moving value between you and a buyer or seller.

Learn about the Lightning network and how it can move Bitcoin nearly instantaneously and nearly free to exchange value. I have already taken crypto in exchange for an item I picked and sold from a yard sale. This will happen when the banking system collapses and society loses faith in TPTB. Bitcoin will never be easier or cheaper to accumulate than it is right now.

My advice would be to start becoming familiar with ways you can operate inside a secondary economy that will not be reliant on the worldcoin for transfer of value. JMHO...

[ynot2k]

Why not move it ("your money") into gold?



Regarding moving ones saved-up dollars into crypto, let's look at the situation from a devils advocate point of view.

There are a very large number of problems that can be seen in a situation where the world has gone to CBDC and one has ones "saved dollars" in crypto. Very few people have significant "saved dollars" and of those people I think few will join in the Secondary Economy. The majority of their finances will still be in CBDC - SS payments, 401k retirement disbursements, buying anything new (cars, appliances, clothes, etc).

Will these people simply keep their previously "saved dollars" in a new saving method i.e. crypto? If they spend from it it will be depleted at some point since most (nearly all) of their income will be in the form of CBDC.

I have a question that came to mind while writing this. You have an exodos wallet. What is that connected to? If you want to retrieve and spend some of the crypto - say you want to spend some doge on etherium - do you just find another person who has etherium and wants doge and who has a wallet that is compatible with yours? The transaction is independent of any other entity, or not?

I do hope others will participate in this thread.

[ynot2k]

Another question - when the Bitcoin futures are removed from the CME Group won't that greatly affect usage especially of BTC but probably all crypto?

[t00nces2]

Why not move it ("your money") into gold?



Regarding moving ones saved-up dollars into crypto, let's look at the situation from a devils advocate point of view.

There are a very large number of problems that can be seen in a situation where the world has gone to CBDC and one has ones "saved dollars" in crypto. Very few people have significant "saved dollars" and of those people I think few will join in the Secondary Economy. The majority of their finances will still be in CBDC - SS payments, 401k retirement disbursements, buying anything new (cars, appliances, clothes, etc).

Will these people simply keep their previously "saved dollars" in a new saving method i.e. crypto? If they spend from it it will be depleted at some point since most (nearly all) of their income will be in the form of CBDC.

I have a question that came to mind while writing this. You have an exodos wallet. What is that connected to? If you want to retrieve and spend some of the crypto - say you want to spend some doge on etherium - do you just find another person who has etherium and wants doge and who has a wallet that is compatible with yours? The transaction is independent of any other entity, or not?

I do hope others will participate in this thread.

Okay, I read over my OP a couple times and did not see any reference to "saved dollars". It seems every time there is a discussion of crypto and putting some money into crypto, the assumption seems that the resistance is to putting all saved money into crypto. There is a gold and silver and platinum board here and people recommend buying gold and silver and platinum and I have never assumed anyone thinks I should put everything I have into any one of them. I assume you have some in some or maybe all as well as other things you think may be a shelter, I am merely suggesting that it could be a good move to put some into crypto and becoming familiar with the use of crypto as a means of transfer of value.... Are you going to be any more familiar with the new planned USDC?

Another question - when the Bitcoin futures are removed from the CME Group won't that greatly affect usage especially of BTC but probably all crypto?

If the trajectory of the country lands where it looks like it is headed for, it will be a very USSR country. Even there, there was a thriving black market. If TPTB are successful in their plan to eradicate cash fiat money, there will be a method of transferring value for goods. Gold and silver and platinum are not a very good substitute for cash. Crypto, on the other hand, has all the benefits of cash and PM's and is fungible and able to be transferred in amounts from very small to very large. It is a solution to the loss of cash, probably one of many. It is an ultimate solution to a barter economy.... I know Bob wants x amount of satoshis for his eggs and Betty is willing to give x amount of satoshis to have her gutters cleaned or have her toilet replaced. John wants x amount to swap tires on my truck. It is not an all or nothing proposition, it will be a tool that can be used to help move us through a tough time where all we have come to rely on has been kicked from beneath us.

[Chump Change]

diversity would included some form of crypto, for some people

for others that might include, instead of cryptos, they perhaps would diversify into chickens, a garden, goats, some type of trade that would suit the local, no reason to make foul weather boots when you live in the desert with all your neighbors

imho, any underground market is gonna include some things other than 'money' and since i'm thinking about this, if everything becomes traceable, trading anything with an electronic footprint won't be a good idea at all

idk, it's actually a very personal decision that's best left to figuring out what the locals are gonna want / need / able to provide versus what you're gonna want / need / and are able to provide

and in any case, crime of all types is gonna increase dramatically, so...imho, anything i'm not directly connected with, physically, may have untold risks right out of the gate

dyodd

[ynot2k]

Okay, I read over my OP a couple times and did not see any reference to "saved dollars"...

I read into your OP that dollars would no longer be obtainable so the only dollars one could trade would have been saved. Nothing more than that.

Crypto, on the other hand, has all the benefits of cash and PM's and is fungible and able to be transferred in amounts from very small to very large. It is a solution to the loss of cash, probably one of many. It is an ultimate solution to a barter economy.... I know Bob wants x amount of satoshis for his eggs and Betty is willing to give x amount of satoshis to have her gutters cleaned or have her toilet replaced. John wants x amount to swap tires on my truck. It is not an all or nothing proposition, it will be a tool that can be used to help move us through a tough time where all we have come to rely on has been kicked from beneath us.

I get that. However at some point some of these people will have spent all of their crypto for eggs, repairs, tires etc. and will be out of the crypto secondary economy. Some will have more crypto because they do repairs, trade eggs etc.

I did preface my reply by suggesting we look at it from a devils advocate point of view. It is fine if you don't want to do that. I have no problem with it. It may prove to be a mistake to not have done so if it leaves you less prepared for going against the system.

As I said it was an invitation to discuss from a devils advocate point of view but if the invitation is unaccepted, no problem.

[ynot2k]

.. chickens, a garden, goats, some type of trade that would suit the local, no reason to make foul weather boots when you live in the desert with all your neighbors

imho, any underground market is gonna include some things other than 'money' ...

I agree that it is these types of non-monetary things that will be the currency of a secondary economy when the CBDC is mandated.

[shades]

Greshams law.

People will always use "currency" that best enables their commerce needs.

People will move away from inconvenient forms, and forms that are subject to other party control/oversight.

[t00nces2]

I read into your OP that dollars would no longer be obtainable so the only dollars one could trade would have been saved. Nothing more than that.



I get that. However at some point some of these people will have spent all of their crypto for eggs, repairs, tires etc. and will be out of the crypto secondary economy. Some will have more crypto because they do repairs, trade eggs etc.

I did preface my reply by suggesting we look at it from a devils advocate point of view. It is fine if you don't want to do that. I have no problem with it. It may prove to be a mistake to not have done so if it leaves you less prepared for going against the system.

As I said it was an invitation to discuss from a devils advocate point of view but if the invitation is unaccepted, no problem.

.... Or, you could charge people crypto for what you do and replenish what you spend on eggs and such.

[ynot2k]

.... Or, you could charge people crypto for what you do and replenish what you spend on eggs and such.

Yes very true about charging people crypto (if crypto still exist). You could do it, shades could do it, I could do it probably most members of this forum could do it as well as all those in similar minded venues.

But we are a very tiny minority. Most people - going back to everyday people again - will not or can not do it. Many of them probably can do the chickens, veggies, labor barter but again I think a small number only. Most everyday people have jobs and family and probably feel like this (from Network):

"Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials, and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone."

But perhaps you are correct and "they" will let us have a secondary economy complete with a currency that competes and threatens the CBDC. It could happen I suppose.

In that case learning about crypto is a good thing.

Can I start learning here: You have an exodos wallet. What is that connected to? If you want to retrieve and spend some of the crypto - say you want to spend some doge on etherium - do you just advertise until you find another person who has etherium and wants doge and who has a wallet that is compatible with yours? The transaction is independent of any other entity, or not?