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Thread: Electric Cars

  1. #1

    Default Electric Cars

    They still aren't viable for my needs, and I've read that most electric vehicle owners keep a fossil fuel car as a backup, especially for trips.

    In my opinion, mining for all these rare earth metals to meet demand (can they?) will raise environmentalists' ire. That and these aren't really environmentally "friendly" when you factor in all the variables.

    Tesla had a good run on huge subsidies (they are still getting some) and now the competition has caught up.

  2. #2

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    As long as petroleum is available for retail, I do not forsee an electric car in my future
    Thomas Jefferson is credited with writing, “When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.” The seceding states in the Civil War period issued a similar declaration using the word “tyranny” as opposed to “injustice.”

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default

    electric vehicles All share a single exhaust pipe at the coal plant.

    Ag guy
    live for today, admit your faults, do the right thing (even if you don't want to) & trust God!
    This life is the training of the soul for the life to come. (accept that we live in a fallen world)
    Whether you know it or not, you are a spiritual eternal being! Ag guy

  4. #4

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    EVs are a great addition to the car market.
    Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. -Mark Twain

    The purpose of life is to matter, to be productive, to have it make some difference that you lived at all. -Leo Rosten

  5. #5

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    Thomas Jefferson is credited with writing, “When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.” The seceding states in the Civil War period issued a similar declaration using the word “tyranny” as opposed to “injustice.”

  6. #6

    Default

    Dumb ass political theatre at its finest.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver76 View Post
    They still aren't viable for my needs, and I've read that most electric vehicle owners keep a fossil fuel car as a backup, especially for trips.

    In my opinion, mining for all these rare earth metals to meet demand (can they?) will raise environmentalists' ire. That and these aren't really environmentally "friendly" when you factor in all the variables.

    Tesla had a good run on huge subsidies (they are still getting some) and now the competition has caught up.
    on tesla, what competition?
    tesla dropped prices
    competitors pooped their pants in silence
    Last edited by yellowsnow; 01-14-2023 at 06:03 PM.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DBCooper View Post
    Dumb ass political theatre at its finest.
    About like dumb Azz CA outlawing internal combustion vehicle sales in 2035

    oregon-follows-california-ban-on-new-internal-combustion-cars-by-2035/

    IMO it is a mighty smart counter measure by WY and I hope it gets ratified into law
    Last edited by vertical1; 01-14-2023 at 08:57 PM.
    Thomas Jefferson is credited with writing, “When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.” The seceding states in the Civil War period issued a similar declaration using the word “tyranny” as opposed to “injustice.”

  9. #9

    Default

    Just my 2 cents,

    My personal belief is that by the time the bans are due to take effect, we will have already hit peak pure electric car manufacturing capacity unable to even keep up with 10% of all vehicles going electric. Inability to make the batteries from the finite/limited supply of rare earth mines forseeable(without turning our entire earth into one giant dystopian strip mine).

    What happens when those 90% of yearly needed vehicles are legislatively unavailable? The price skyrockets to unaffordability of those needed vehicles, and the only people able to get around legally are millionaires. Then the stupid general public, now really being egregiously hurt by democtat voting and agendas finally wake up and throw the bums out, and repeal the law, to let ice vehicles be made again.

    The problem with current new vehicles, unfortunately, is that they are now literally designed to become economically unsustainable to keep maintained and repaired even a few years after their warranties are up. Basically throw-away mentality finally hitting the auto sector full force.

    Just me, and my personal prediction, but seeing how american carmakers are now going all in to convert to 100% ev in the next decade means they will drive themselves out of economic viability when their manufacturing lines sit idle because there are no mpre batteries to be had. Toyota has actual smart, non pc-driven execs who see this. They will survive, and possibly become top dog in a decade.

    Meanwhile, my advice is to find and obtain old school, easily repairable old school carb, or possibly tbi stout work vehicles that have tpns of spare parts companies still making everything needed to rebuild them forever. Its why I collect GM/Chevy squarebodies, Amc vehicles like the ramblers and Eagles, old Deere farming harvesters/tractors/balers, etc.as well as vintage propane motors for my pumps.

  10. #10

    Default

    90% of the electric cars ever manufactured, are still on the road today. The other 10% were able to make it to their destination before the battery went dead.

    That’s a joke, but it strikes at the heart of the discontent that most people have with the current selection of EVs. That would be range anxiety.

    Electric vehicles have their place in the market, but their proper place is being distorted by political influence & subsidies.

    I have seen GEM electric vehicles for decades, in small numbers, in areas where highway travel is not needed. These are glorified golf carts. They fall into a category that is known as neighborhood electric vehicles. They are popular in certain sprawling suburban areas & large gated communities. I think that they are only legal on roads who’s speed limit does not exceed 40mph. Their existence was created by market demand.

    We have now seen the push to create larger EVs that try to take on the role of traditional cars. At this time, they fall short in speed of refueling and maximum range. They also have the issues of limited battery life & used battery disposal. Other than that, the technology to manufacturer a usable EV exists today. The development of these cars was fueled by government hand outs. Free markets did not cause them to come into being.

    In the previous paragraph, I had originally wanted to say that we have the ability to make these cars today, rather than just saying that we have the technology to do so, but I changed that statement because I question the large scale availability of some necessary raw materials.

    Rare earth elements are needed to make modern EVs. This includes things like Lithium & Cobalt for the batteries as well as things like Neodymium & Boron for the high efficiency magnets in the electric motors. Most of the world’s rare earth elements are in China. Another large chunk is in Afghanistan. Russia has some too. Parts of Africa have some. Guess who doesn’t have very much of that stuff – North America & Europe.

    Electric vehicles have been around for a very long time. I recall seeing a very old advertisement from around the 1920’s for an electric vehicle. I think it might have been a Cadillac. The ad stated that it was the perfect car for a woman because she would not need to hand crank the engine. This probably predated the first electric start combustion engine. I think that Ford first offered electric start in the 1926 Model T, which I think was also the last year of production for that model. Baker was another company that made electric cars back in the day. They later abandon making cars & instead made electric fork lifts. The fact that almost nobody remembers antique electric cars, is that they fell out of favor due to the market forces showing them to be a poor value. Not that many were made because not many people wanted them. This was almost certainly due to their price & performance.

    Modern EVs are not as “green” as they are advertised to be. Nor are they as efficient as they are advertised to be. That’s all marketing hype. The carbon footprint of an EV’s manufacture will cover the carbon footprint of a lot of fuel. The mining of rare earth elements has a noteworthy impact on the environment. Rare earth elements tend to be pretty darn toxic.

    In the early 1980’s normally aspirated diesel cars were available in the US that got 45mpg, but they were a bit sluggish to drive. In the late 1990’s turbo diesel powered cars were available in the US that could get 50mpg & were quite a bit more snappy to drive. Slightly smaller versions were available in Europe & South America that were able to get 70mpg. When I shop for a car in the US today, noting in this range is available, despite a reduction in the physical size of the average car on the road. These days, 40+mpg is not available in a combustion engine car. Why would that be? Have we forgotten how to make things that we made 25 years ago? Does nobody want better MPG anymore? Both of these questions answer themselves. The only logical conclusion I see is sabotage in the market place. That leaves us to the question of why? That conversation would need to get into tin foil hat territory, so I’m going to leave it be for now.

    The fact is, that we are being pushed into electric cars by a combination of price subsidies & lack of other options that are as good as what was available 25 years ago. It has been my general experience that the more you are pushed into something, the less truly beneficial it is likely to be. We are being pushed into a lot of things these days.
    Last edited by SilverPalm; 01-16-2023 at 04:29 AM.
    “The Federal Reserve is not currently forecasting a recession.”
    Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, January 2008
    This is no longer posted in the Fed Minutes of January 2008, but still quoted here - https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna22592939. The FOMC minutes still quote MR. Reifschneider. as stating the same thing.

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