Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 65

Thread: Discussion of converting Kitco pool holdings to physical metal

  1. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwellsilverhammer View Post
    oh damn, agbug. to be paying storage fees on metals they are not holding. that is indeed a major issue and sounds like criminal charges could be a possibility. i hope you are not personally having this current issue. just another reason we have all been floating around the if you dont hold it idea on this forum.
    No, I only buy into what i can hold in my hands. I own exactly 1 ounce of paper silver at kinesis which they gave me as a promotion they were doing on reddit.com/r/wallstreetsilver, offering an ounce of KAG (what they call their paper silver) to the 1st 1000 people to sign up using their promo link. They require you to have 200 ounces of KAG to take delivery, so I just leave my 1 ounce in there until i am ready to spend it with their digital debit card.

    I knew from instinct years ago when i first started buying metals not to trust any paper products. It's like playing musical chairs when the pool account custodians sell more shares of the pool than they have metal to cover, and then when the music stops a lucky few may get metal and the rest are just settled in cash (if they are lucky). I want metal, not cash lol.




    .
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

  2. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ifionlyhadsomegold View Post
    Lol, I am sure they are balls deep in silver.


    The way I read it is available inventory on the website. I would be at the front of the line. I can tell you that.

    I said it before and now again. You are not locked into Kitco. If they can't handle your trade plenty of others can. All you need to do is cash out and hope the market don't turn until you lock in physical.

    If you are new to this game the way it's played is if you don't hold it, you don't own it.
    We are in abnormal times, friend. If Kitco only has "available inventory on their website", what happens when they get cleaned out of inventory and then pool holders come along asking for delivery?

    The way these pool accounts should work if they were honest is to have the pool account silver set aside and allocated for use only when pool account holders come asking for it. To just sell paper silver and not have any set aside to cover pool account holdings in the event of a run on silver is ludicrous.




    .
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

  3. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agbug View Post
    We are in abnormal times, friend. If Kitco only has "available inventory on their website", what happens when they get cleaned out of inventory and then pool holders come along asking for delivery?

    The way these pool accounts should work if they were honest is to have the pool account silver set aside and allocated for use only when pool account holders come asking for it. To just sell paper silver and not have any set aside to cover pool account holdings in the event of a run on silver is ludicrous.




    .
    Whether they do or do not have physical silver is moot. The fabrication issue is where the hang up comes in. Unless someone said they are holding xxxx silver eagles, ect, ect. in your account and default on that it's a non issue. Don't get the folks all fired up about a default when this is exactly what they signed up for. It's not a default and can be settled in cash if you are not allocated. Un-allocated means zero physical silver is allocated to you so there is no way to default by not providing physical.


    "Kitco Pool - Metal Accounts features:

    No annual fees
    No commissions, shipping, storage or insurance fees
    No fabrication costs associated with bullion bars and coins
    Live real-time price quotes and small trading spreads
    Buy or sell online or over the phone
    Take physical delivery of your holdings upon an applicable delivery, fabrication, and insurance fee payment
    No minimum purchase required
    Greater liquidity and flexibility than physical bullion"

    One of the main features of the account is that it's not physical bullion.
    Last edited by ifionlyhadsomegold; 04-05-2021 at 03:27 PM.

  4. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ifionlyhadsomegold View Post
    Whether they do or do not have physical silver is moot. The fabrication issue is where the hang up comes in. Unless someone said they are holding xxxx silver eagles, ect, ect. in your account and default on that it's a non issue. Don't get the folks all fired up about a default when this is exactly what they signed up for. It's not a default and can be settled in cash if you are not allocated. Un-allocated means zero physical silver is allocated to you so there is no way to default by not providing physical.
    Allocated means that specific products are being held for you, unallocated means "I have a big pile of silver here and you own x ounces of it". Not "give me money and when the time comes i will find the silver and give it to you". This is asking for trouble. What happens if I buy $5 million of silver in a pool account today at $25 and the price of silver skyrockets to $5000? Does the company just go bankrupt since they did not acquire the silver at $25 to cover the pool holdings?
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

  5. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agbug View Post
    Allocated means that specific products are being held for you, unallocated means "I have a big pile of silver here and you own x ounces of it". Not "give me money and when the time comes i will find the silver and give it to you". This is asking for trouble. What happens if I buy $5 million of silver in a pool account today at $25 and the price of silver skyrockets to $5000? Does the company just go bankrupt since they did not acquire the silver at $25 to cover the pool holdings?
    Your understanding of un-allocated is lacking. Not sure why you are busting on Kitco.

    "Kitco Pool - Metal Accounts are unallocated accounts"

    https://www.bullionvault.com/help/De...nallocated.htm

    "Unallocated gold is a bookkeeping device by which a bank or other enterprise provides you with notional gold. Under the law a liquidator returns your formal property to you if a bank fails. But where it is your asset - like unallocated gold (not your property) they almost certainly cannot return it to you. Instead you would be in a pool of unsecured creditors waiting to see what cash the liquidators might raise in selling all the bank's assets. This sale would include non-performing loans, derivative and bond portfolios, and whatever stock of gold you might think was backing your unallocated gold account."

    Hope this helps you understand and answers your question.

  6. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ifionlyhadsomegold View Post
    Your understanding of un-allocated is lacking. Not sure why you are busting on Kitco.

    "Kitco Pool - Metal Accounts are unallocated accounts"

    https://www.bullionvault.com/help/De...nallocated.htm

    "Unallocated gold is a bookkeeping device by which a bank or other enterprise provides you with notional gold. Under the law a liquidator returns your formal property to you if a bank fails. But where it is your asset - like unallocated gold (not your property) they almost certainly cannot return it to you. Instead you would be in a pool of unsecured creditors waiting to see what cash the liquidators might raise in selling all the bank's assets. This sale would include non-performing loans, derivative and bond portfolios, and whatever stock of gold you might think was backing your unallocated gold account."

    Hope this helps you understand and answers your question.
    So basically you're telling me when you buy unallocated pool silver, what you are really doing is giving the company an unsecured loan. That's what I understand when I read your post.

    So glad I never bought into any of the various pool accounts.



    .



    .
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

  7. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ifionlyhadsomegold View Post
    Your understanding of un-allocated is lacking. Not sure why you are busting on Kitco.

    "Kitco Pool - Metal Accounts are unallocated accounts"
    According to kitcos pool account description, it would seem that they do, indeed, claim to hold actual physical metals against pool account holders claims:

    Kitco Pool - Metal Accounts
    Kitco Pool - Metal Accounts are unallocated accounts of precious metal deposits in which you do not have direct title to specific allocated bullion bars or coins. As a Kitco Pool - Metal Account holder, you own a portion of a pool of precious metals held by Kitco on your behalf.
    So my understanding was not lacking, at all.
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

  8. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agbug View Post
    So basically you're telling me when you buy unallocated pool silver, what you are really doing is giving the company an unsecured loan. That's what I understand when I read your post.

    So glad I never bought into any of the various pool accounts.



    .



    .
    Smart move. Another issue for pool holders is premiums. Now your looking to convert your account for $6+/OZ when it was $2+ before. That's a big hit and is frosting a lot of asses I am sure.

  9. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ifionlyhadsomegold View Post
    Your understanding of un-allocated is lacking. Not sure why you are busting on Kitco.

    "Kitco Pool - Metal Accounts are unallocated accounts"

    https://www.bullionvault.com/help/De...nallocated.htm

    "Unallocated gold is a bookkeeping device by which a bank or other enterprise provides you with notional gold. Under the law a liquidator returns your formal property to you if a bank fails. But where it is your asset - like unallocated gold (not your property) they almost certainly cannot return it to you. Instead you would be in a pool of unsecured creditors waiting to see what cash the liquidators might raise in selling all the bank's assets. This sale would include non-performing loans, derivative and bond portfolios, and whatever stock of gold you might think was backing your unallocated gold account."

    Hope this helps you understand and answers your question.
    Actually, it looks like it is your understanding of "un-allocated" that is lacking, (as you speak so shall yee be spoken to), at least when it comes to Kitco (there is no universal definition of "unallocated") which you can find here: https://online.kitco.com/kitco-pool

    Kitco Pool - Metal Accounts are unallocated accounts of precious metal deposits in which you do not have direct title to specific allocated bullion bars or coins. As a Kitco Pool - Metal Account holder, you own a portion of a pool of precious metals held by Kitco on your behalf. In exchange for your Kitco Pool - Metal Account holdings, you can request and receive any physical precious metal bullion product available in our online store upon full payment of all applicable fabrication, shipping, and insurance charges.

    Kitco Pool - Metal Accounts may consist of precious metals in any form whatsoever, including but not limited to bars, coins, and scrap metal. Precious metal pool accounts are available for gold, silver, platinum, palladium , and rhodium. These precious metal assets, while not segregated by individual ownership, belong entirely to Kitco’s customers who are Pool Account holders and are available to those customers at any time.

    As a owner of Kitco PM pools myself, I have asked for and received bullion in the past as it is supposed to work. That said, if you see nothing being sold of a particular metals bullion because they are all out, it is most likely there is nothing left in their vault in bullion form either. This has happened to me when I asked for the platinum when it was in extremely short supply. What I did not ask (because I did not want) is that PM in "scrap metal" form, would they send scrap metal in the amount you owned if no bullion was left? That is perhaps a question the moderators can answer that I don't know, but given you may not be able to obtain your holding in bullion form during a real panic, as many here have said, if you don't hold it, do your really own it? I see my Kitco Pool account as not quite a sure thing as metals in hand, however certainly better than the ETF accounts one may have. It is a middle ground, in tradeability to.

    Physical metals in hand have best claim on ownership, but typically least efficiency in trading.
    Pool holdings are 2nd best on claims on ownership, however easier to trade then physical.
    ETF funds have very poor claims on ownership however very easy to trade.

    So depending on the reasons one uses PM's, you own it in different forms. I have physical in hand, pool, and ETF, spread out in various funds, forms, and locations. All eggs in one basket not for me!
    Last edited by motocat; 04-05-2021 at 04:16 PM.
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  10. #30

    Default

    Not sure why you are looking to start with me again.

    "
    Kitco Pool - Metal Accounts may consist of precious metals in any form whatsoever, including but not limited to bars, coins, and scrap metal. Precious metal pool accounts are available for gold, silver, platinum, palladium , and rhodium. These precious metal assets, while not segregated by individual ownership, belong entirely to Kitco’s customers who are Pool Account holders and are available to those customers at any time."

    So Kitco takes the unsecured loan you give them and games the PM markets. Your ownership of metal is limited to the total assets of Kitco that is claimed to be PM's. Your only claim is an unsecured one that your would be inline with the rest of the creditors. What is available to you at any time is a solvent Kitco balance sheet. Didn't we do this like a year ago?

    Hope you learned something.

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •