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Thread: To grade, or not to grade!!!

  1. #11

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    That's a great analysis by Bronkster. If you really wanted something slabbed and will grade and preserve then grading isn't always bad. It's a little gimmicky just takes up more space in your collection. Can always be sent in for grading later. I sometimes wonder if their is some kind of dollar number for numismatic pieces that can justify putting the coin in a slab. Preservation I can see for these new moderns, what a mess the proofs become, they are to pristine and need to be slabbed and sealed when manufactured in a clean environment.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by everything1 View Post
    That's a great analysis by Bronkster. If you really wanted something slabbed and will grade and preserve then grading isn't always bad. It's a little gimmicky just takes up more space in your collection. Can always be sent in for grading later. I sometimes wonder if their is some kind of dollar number for numismatic pieces that can justify putting the coin in a slab. Preservation I can see for these new moderns, what a mess the proofs become, they are to pristine and need to be slabbed and sealed when manufactured in a clean environment.
    Thanks, everything1. I will always give my honest appraisal/advice/answers of/to any numismatic collecting questions that I believe I can help out on. Not saying I'm infallible or can't make a mistake or give bad advice, but much of my experience was earned and learned the hard way- by making mistakes. I can honestly say that I learned my lessons and have since helped out a bunch of friends in that regard, many times quite to their surprise and delight.

    You're quite right too. The truth about slabs is that many times, they are gimmicky- especially if people are sending in or purchasing modern coins or low value coins just to have them encapsulated. Does anyone really need to have a state quarter slabbed? Not really, but you'll still see tons of them out there. Third party grading services do serve an important purpose too, though as they will lend at least some standard of credibility towards the grade of a coin and also it's authenticity. In general though, one should only stick to the most well known and widely respected companies and yet still check out the number codes as to the slabs authenticity itself. Also, one must remember to "Buy the coin and not the slab.". They fake coins and they fake slabs now too, so even if a "coin" is slabbed, caution must still be taken. Dyodd is never out of style.

    As with anything, if you ask 100 people what minimum value or dollar number that one should use as a guide to consider submitting a coin, you'll probably get 100 different answers. I am an old school collector myself and generally do not send in coins, but can't say that I never have. I also don't put down or discourage anyone from doing what they want to do with their own money, even if I think they could use it more effectively and/or get more actual coins. As a general rule though, many of my collector friends and I wouldn't even consider slabbing a coin unless it was "worth" $500 minimum. Some of them do think $200 as a minimum is fair. I've sent in uncirculated/mint state common date $20 Gold Liberty Head double eagles before because I wanted to resell them and that action actually paid off for me when it came time for me to sell (a coin I bought for $1800 or $1900 netted me an additional $500-$600). Besides, being a collector who can actually grade his coins and who also grades conservatively and puts the coins into archival quality albums, slabs just don't generally fit the bill for me personally. I've got many a $500, $600 or $700 plus coin in a type set that I'm working on and none of them are slabbed, but there are many collectors that swear by them and are assembling registry sets to have the best of the best, blah blah blah ad infinitum. To each his own, I guess.

  3. #13

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    I can see not having cheaper coins graded.

    But when you get into high value coins... $1k and up...they are as necessary as it comes.

    You want to avoid paying for a fake coin.

    I have not seen any fakes in holders....not in holders of rep. graders...(like NGC I should say)....ive seen plenty of fake slabbed Morgans on fleabay.

    If you have the expertise to spot fakes and determine grades, you can make a fortune in loose ancients...sadly, this is not a talent I possess.
    Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. -Mark Twain

    The purpose of life is to matter, to be productive, to have it make some difference that you lived at all. -Leo Rosten

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miteysquirrel View Post
    I can see not having cheaper coins graded.

    But when you get into high value coins... $1k and up...they are as necessary as it comes.

    You want to avoid paying for a fake coin.

    I have not seen any fakes in holders....not in holders of rep. graders...(like NGC I should say)....ive seen plenty of fake slabbed Morgans on fleabay.

    If you have the expertise to spot fakes and determine grades, you can make a fortune in loose ancients...sadly, this is not a talent I possess.
    That seems a fair and decent assessment of minimum price points to suggest slabbing- especially if one isn't super familiar with detecting fakes and will probably need that assurance for the future, such as when one passes on a collection to heirs. It also makes it much easier for future owners to determine what it is exactly, "look it up" and search for value comparisons.

    To be honest, I've "cracked out" many coins that were going into my collection and I know of many others who do the same. Sometimes to check the authenticity of the coin (with scales and calipers) because that's difficult to do through the plastic of a slab, and again, if a slab has been faked, there's a good chance that the coin is too. Personally, I have never encountered a fake slab for my own collection, but I have actually been in LCS's that had discovered some fake slabs on their counter being offered to them. All I'm saying is, it pays to do your homework. Now if you send a coin in through a trusted coin dealer or do it yourself, then sure, I'd believe it's authenticity. I do know of the existence of some unscrupulous coin dealers, though, even though they are probably few and far between. I'm talking about the kind that would do the old switcheroo with your coin, keep it, and then send in another lower grade coin. I know of coin dealers who, when a Morgan silver dollar melted for about $15- not that long ago, offered unknowing potential sellers $5 each for them. Luckily for them, they waited and didn't sell. When the sellers told me this, I offered them straight up melt for them and they accepted and were very happy with getting 3X what they were offered previously.

    I guess what I'm trying to get across is that you should question things if you haven't sent a coin in yourself or through a trusted dealer. Those guys wouldn't take the chance on ruining their reputations just to scam someone. This goes double for if you're buying off of eBay. You're right. I'd stick with PCGS, NGC or possibly Anacs and/or ICG as long as you're careful. The amount of fake coins on eBay is actually astounding and yet, eBay doesn't seem to care as long as they get their money. The amount of fakes on other sites like Wish or Etsy and others is absolutely mind blowing, though and extreme caution should definitely be exercised at all times at those places.

    As for ancients, I'm completely like a fish out of water. I'm familiar with U.S. and foreign coins from the 1700's through today, but ancient coins? No way. I only have like 4 of them which my wife found at a yard sale for 25 cents each and it took me forever and a day to research them. Thing is, they are faked a lot too and sometimes even the experts can be fooled. Also it's funny how some ancients are worth tons of money and some are like, $5-$15 or $20, so I'll just say that they're not in my area of knowledge. At all, so I feel your pain.
    Last edited by bronkster1967; 03-13-2021 at 07:10 PM.

  5. #15

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    Next submission...
    Is this coin even remotely worth even considering grading?




    https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/...0-duid-1322844
    "Compulsory altruism is none too altruistic." - me

    "All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across." -- Julian Simon

  6. #16

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    Hmm, it's a really cool coin and I admit, I'm partial to older coins with Queen Victoria on them, but I'd still hold off on it if it were mine. It seems to have a relatively low mintage and even prices higher than the lower mintage issues in "the book", which tells me that the shilling from 1889 probably wasn't saved in any good numbers. IMO judging from your pics, it would probably grade somewhere between an XF-45 and an AU-53 or 55, so to be safe, an AU-50. They do seem to be fairly plentiful on eBay though and not getting the respect they surely deserve unless uncirculated. I'd keep it just like it is. There's nothing wrong with that!

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by bronkster1967 View Post
    Hmm, it's a really cool coin and I admit, I'm partial to older coins with Queen Victoria on them, but I'd still hold off on it if it were mine. It seems to have a relatively low mintage and even prices higher than the lower mintage issues in "the book", which tells me that the shilling from 1889 probably wasn't saved in any good numbers. IMO judging from your pics, it would probably grade somewhere between an XF-45 and an AU-53 or 55, so to be safe, an AU-50. They do seem to be fairly plentiful on eBay though and not getting the respect they surely deserve unless uncirculated. I'd keep it just like it is. There's nothing wrong with that!
    That mexican coin on the previous page... what condition you think that one is in? Also, is the book on it insanely high or in the ballpark? I mean, I have no issue keeping these things raw. I prefer them out of slabs. Too bulky and a hassle to really look at them, but if I can flip a $7 coin for a couple hundred and get more silver ounces, well I think a slab is worth it, maybe.

    On the other hand I don't want to send in bogus coins either.
    "Compulsory altruism is none too altruistic." - me

    "All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across." -- Julian Simon

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by windweaver77 View Post
    That mexican coin on the previous page... what condition you think that one is in? Also, is the book on it insanely high or in the ballpark? I mean, I have no issue keeping these things raw. I prefer them out of slabs. Too bulky and a hassle to really look at them, but if I can flip a $7 coin for a couple hundred and get more silver ounces, well I think a slab is worth it, maybe.

    On the other hand I don't want to send in bogus coins either.
    Oh, I missed that one! That's in great shape- I'd call it definitely uncirculated, probably an MS-62 or very close to that either way. The book does seem high on it, but only due to the fact that one sold at an eBay auction recently (January of this year) in supposedly better shape ( NGC graded as MS-63), for only $56. That means something is way off- either the demand for the coin or the valuation by NGC. I mean, it's a beautiful coin and in very collectible shape with no issues and yet according to them, it should be valued at somewhere between $275 and $325, but it didn't get anywhere in the same region as that.

    I totally agree with you that if you can find relatively cheap coins and get them 3rd party graded and resell them into more and better coins for your collection, you should do it. I just think it'll take some finagling as you'll really have to watch for what coins are actively collected and getting bidden up to the levels of the price guides or at least close to it. They're out there, but finding out which will be most financially rewarding to you will be the trick for you to master. I haven't seen you post a bogus coin yet. And perhaps I'm being overly critical in dissuading you to not send in certain coins, but I'm following/watching the current market trends and trying to give you my honest opinion in order to help. It's important to do that, even though sometimes it pays to enter an area of collecting that is currently out of favor.

    That's not to say that things might not change in the future and it won't be worth revisiting the same coins later- they could. As it is right now, we're in a bull market for numismatics and it's been chugging along nicely for awhile now. There's been articles in well known coin magazines describing that even though much of the country was locked down due to Covid-19 restrictions, coin collecting and buying has actually increased in demand, so even lockdowns couldn't stop it. This is occurring even though most coin shows were cancelled as well as in person auctions. On top of that, people are and have been looking for alternative areas in which to put their "money" and hard assets like bullion and rare coins is fitting the bill for at least some of us.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by bronkster1967 View Post
    Oh, I missed that one! That's in great shape- I'd call it definitely uncirculated, probably an MS-62 or very close to that either way. The book does seem high on it, but only due to the fact that one sold at an eBay auction recently (January of this year) in supposedly better shape ( NGC graded as MS-63), for only $56. That means something is way off- either the demand for the coin or the valuation by NGC. I mean, it's a beautiful coin and in very collectible shape with no issues and yet according to them, it should be valued at somewhere between $275 and $325, but it didn't get anywhere in the same region as that.

    I totally agree with you that if you can find relatively cheap coins and get them 3rd party graded and resell them into more and better coins for your collection, you should do it. I just think it'll take some finagling as you'll really have to watch for what coins are actively collected and getting bidden up to the levels of the price guides or at least close to it. They're out there, but finding out which will be most financially rewarding to you will be the trick for you to master. I haven't seen you post a bogus coin yet. And perhaps I'm being overly critical in dissuading you to not send in certain coins, but I'm following/watching the current market trends and trying to give you my honest opinion in order to help. It's important to do that, even though sometimes it pays to enter an area of collecting that is currently out of favor.

    That's not to say that things might not change in the future and it won't be worth revisiting the same coins later- they could. As it is right now, we're in a bull market for numismatics and it's been chugging along nicely for awhile now. There's been articles in well known coin magazines describing that even though much of the country was locked down due to Covid-19 restrictions, coin collecting and buying has actually increased in demand, so even lockdowns couldn't stop it. This is occurring even though most coin shows were cancelled as well as in person auctions. On top of that, people are and have been looking for alternative areas in which to put their "money" and hard assets like bullion and rare coins is fitting the bill for at least some of us.
    I appreciate your input. I guess I need to figure out how to see what these actually sell for at auctions. All I know is, if I see something nicer looking I snatch it up if the price is right... hopefully one day it will pay off. With silver coins it seems a touch easier as many people only think about silver weight on foreign stuff.

    That's a double-edged sword though, come sell time.

    I also hear tell that the numismatic stuff is really heating up in Chyna. Those folks have always been fond of coinage, especially silver.

    Perhaps, one day, when they overrun the nation, I'll be able to bribe some commies with my graded coins and gain passage to the mountains... or some such scenic place to die.
    "Compulsory altruism is none too altruistic." - me

    "All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across." -- Julian Simon

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by windweaver77 View Post
    I appreciate your input. I guess I need to figure out how to see what these actually sell for at auctions. All I know is, if I see something nicer looking I snatch it up if the price is right... hopefully one day it will pay off. With silver coins it seems a touch easier as many people only think about silver weight on foreign stuff.

    That's a double-edged sword though, come sell time.

    I also hear tell that the numismatic stuff is really heating up in Chyna. Those folks have always been fond of coinage, especially silver.

    Perhaps, one day, when they overrun the nation, I'll be able to bribe some commies with my graded coins and gain passage to the mountains... or some such scenic place to die.
    Well, if I feel I can bring anything to the table and help out, then I will. Happily and freely. I want us to succeed and keep gaining enjoyment of "the hobby of kings".

    Checking eBay sold listings is easy. And no, it's not the be all end all bible on what things sell for, but it is often (not always) a fairly accurate gauge of what one can reasonably expect to get for selling or pay for buying something- even coins and bullion. Yup, many times foreign silver coins are overlooked and are commonly sold based only upon their weight. That can pay off handsomely for eagle eyed buyers such as yourself who are able to discern the better quality coins from the hordes out there. Separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. Hell, even professional coin dealers do it too. Why can't we?

    In the U.S., foreign coins will never attain the collectability status of American coinage. That's just a fact. But with online sites such as eBay, there are literally millions of people from across the world who can access whatever they're looking to buy or sell within minutes if not seconds. And even I have noticed that a lot more people ( U.S. based coin collectors) have been willing to buy foreign coins- especially if they're gold or silver, so that only bodes well for guys like you and me.

    If numismatics is ramping up in China, it doesn't surprise me in the least. I have always heard stories of the Chinese people having a deep distrust of banks, and with good reason. So even they have been looking for alternative ways to hide their wealth and assets. Yeah, some of it will probably go to cryptocurrency, but not all of it. A lot of Chinese paper wealth is converted to PM's, just like here in the good ole U.S.A.

    Hopefully I will be long gone and dust before a nightmare like that ever happens, but if I'm not, at least I'll have my fair share of silver and gold to use for bribery purposes also.
    Last edited by bronkster1967; 03-14-2021 at 11:58 PM.

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