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Thread: Gold as a replacement for large cash and bond savings

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
    Whether it's PM's, bonds, real estate or whatever you're selling at a profit or loss, written records and receipts of your transactions are of importance, especially when it comes to taxes. And of course, it's no different when entering the 'gold arena' there is a buy price and a sell price. The bottom line is what your total out of pocket is when buying as opposed to profit/loss when selling. It's really not that hard if you're careful and patient when buying or selling anything. I consider the 'tax burden' just another cost of business to be figured in and accounted for.

    I might add, record keeping is a 'discipline' I learned from my grandmother at an early age. Having gone through the great depression, she kept records on everything, including what she spent on food. Records are worth their weight in gold (so to speak) and can mean the difference between profit or loss.
    I wonder if a good accountant could advice the proper use of the 1031 tax code for like-kind exchange being used for a swap of Ag for Ag or vice versa. This would also allow a boot to be used to allow some profit taking. Such as selling a 4 apartment building for a two apartment building plus X amount of cash. This allows profit to be created slowly over time as one reduces the size of the "investment" and tax to be only on the the amount of the boot.
    Do your own due diligence

    I stand united with my friends & family in Canada who seek freedom.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by vertical1 View Post
    I have come to the realisation that to enter into the Gold arena there is the price of admission cashing out or roll over fees and premiums to begin.
    Then there is the price of maintenance after you acquire your Gold..be that storage of the gold and or the paper trail to prove your Basis to TPTB (IRS) upon your
    Exit...
    bringing a final point is the price of the Exit...yes the tax burden if you profit or the loss burden if you need to get out of your gold position at a lower $ stance.
    All these considered, to me, I find that gold is really not all that shiny. In fact these same Input, maintenance, and Exit principles apply to many investments.

    My most recent episode with these 3 stages is the sale of my house. My hope is to make some profit, however the stress that I am undergoing is diminishing my return profoundly.
    Because without your health, .......(insert cliche here)

    It is all these things that prevented me from trading my fiat based 401K to a largely gold position. As I also considered your same decision recently.
    KITCO thread I started
    Cost of maintenance and buy-sell spread can be very minor (especially with gold) if you do your homework, just reading some relevant posts here by kitco members can help you with that. Now, if your main concern in life is paying taxes and keeping records, best to just be some employee with some pension plan so that your master can take care of most of that for you, and you will have a very simple tax return that you can even have someone else do (given you are so afraid of the tax man and don't want to take responsibility for any errors). In short, become a dependent, like a child. I can not admire that.

    Your language seems to have been dictated by your worship of banker digits and the IRS. What you and they call a "profit" (based on fiat digits) is a lie, yet you will use and except it, like an obedient slave. I don't think you are very good at math or reading charts if you have not figured that over time gold holds it's value FAR better than bonds -- regardless of taxes -- and if you are really into reporting every little thing you do in life, have you no understanding of how IRA's work?

    Perhaps your stress is a symptom of taking the wrong approach in life? Maybe there is more to life then counting bankers fiat digits and fearing so many obscure rules? Maybe the great faith you have in certain large institutions is misplaced? You are so worried about minor things, you miss out on the larger picture, and have made poor choices and suffered financial losses as a result. Anyone who has kept large amounts in bonds/cash (note, I did not say stocks), instead of PM's, has made a poor financial choice, I don't see how even poor math skills can hide that - -but I guess hearing so many supposed experts keep parroting the notion of keeping a certain bond balance helps hide this? A massive brainwashing of the population, on what really are very simple matters. But that's OK for us no nonsense stackers -- should to many people wake up to the truth, no doubt they would make even stricter rules against owning gold (as they have in the past).
    Last edited by motocat; 09-20-2020 at 03:43 PM.
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  3. #33

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    My wife has a very very large 401K and my worry is that the SM will crash before we get all of it out of fiat and pumped up paper stocks. That's the trouble with life, no guarantees. Embrace the suck.


    OBTW, when you sell a house you can exclude up to $250,000 of the capital gains from the sale if you’re single, and $500,000 if married. If you've lived in it for at least two of the past five years.
    Do your own due diligence

    I stand united with my friends & family in Canada who seek freedom.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongDonSilver View Post
    My wife has a very very large 401K and my worry is that the SM will crash before we get all of it out of fiat and pumped up paper stocks. That's the trouble with life, no guarantees. Embrace the suck.

    OBTW, when you sell a house you can exclude up to $250,000 of the capital gains from the sale if you’re single, and $500,000 if married. If you've lived in it for at least two of the past five years.
    Yup, real estate has been pushed in various ways through the years, the capital gains exclusion is just one way. My thread is not to oppose investments in real estate (in which of course place and time also make all the difference), or to say no to stock (given the wealthy of the U.S. hold most in stock, you can count on it to be pumped) -- it is to suggest we replace longer term holdings of bonds and cash entirely with gold. Bonds are for those suckers who are happy for others to gain at their expense -- and there are so many of them with such confidence in dollar denominated bonds (many of whom are working class elderly who don't know what happened to the dollar), that the financial masters know they can continue to count on them to take losses so that the rich in on the game can get even wealthier. Rather tired of the working class savers getting taken advantage of (and the message that debt is good and savings bad)-- thus my desire to spread the word on one way to avoid the fake banker created dollar/related bonds, and get back to honest money that rewards the working mans savings in a very simple way.
    Last edited by motocat; 09-20-2020 at 06:07 PM.
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongDonSilver View Post
    My wife has a very very large 401K and my worry is that the SM will crash before we get all of it out of fiat and pumped up paper stocks. That's the trouble with life, no guarantees. Embrace the suck.


    OBTW, when you sell a house you can exclude up to $250,000 of the capital gains from the sale if you’re single, and $500,000 if married. If you've lived in it for at least two of the past five years.
    Yup. And Motocat, point taken in that the reference point I gave in my post oriented the fiat digits as being the core. I get that fiat is NOT the core but yep pretty ingrained in my mind as you so graciously pointed out.
    That said I am aware of the exclusion of the primary residence sale I do have the "basis" paper work and needed paper trail to show that no "profit" was gained by the
    holding and sale and maintenance of my primary residence. That box of papers will be of great use in the near future.
    Last edited by vertical1; 09-20-2020 at 08:22 PM.
    Thomas Jefferson is credited with writing, “When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.” The seceding states in the Civil War period issued a similar declaration using the word “tyranny” as opposed to “injustice.”

  6. #36

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    It was a good day to move some more of my fiat dollar reserves into gold reserves.
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by vertical1 View Post
    Yup. And Motocat, point taken in that the reference point I gave in my post oriented the fiat digits as being the core. I get that fiat is NOT the core but yep pretty ingrained in my mind as you so graciously pointed out.
    That said I am aware of the exclusion of the primary residence sale I do have the "basis" paper work and needed paper trail to show that no "profit" was gained by the
    holding and sale and maintenance of my primary residence. That box of papers will be of great use in the near future.
    Of course we understand why fiat is important for tax purposes. However, with PM's, many ways to avoid that, no matter using an IRA or other means. With precious metals, it is best if only people you trust with your life know about your holdings. If one is to base their entire financial strategy on ease of tax reporting -- my advice is that it's best to become indigent, only receiving and not earning anything. And let's remember, sailing leaky boats can be an expensive hobby, and there is no reason to report to some alien magic counters where you last sunk.
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  8. #38

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    I have been reflecting more on this subject -- why do so many financial experts use bonds and cash to balance and trade into and out of stocks, when one can trade with gold just as well? When one considers the long term implications of cash and most bond holdings (to dah zero!), it is especially idiotic.

    However, knowing the nature of most people, the need to support their fragile egos -- I now get it more. It's EASY to beat or at least equal the value of the dollar. And when you are using the dollar as your basis -- you can always win! Easy peasy, pretty peachy, the more and more dollars you get! We are all Rich! (Not).

    Rather, so many of you traders are so incompetent, you need a changing metric to make yourself imagine you are winning, when most of you are not. Like you are setting new long jump records, because that meter you use keeps getting shorter. Win vs the value of the gold eagle dollar -- then you can say you are an adept trader. If my digital funds are not winning over my gold funds - then it was all a waste of time, no pat on the back -- 5% is a joke folks.

    Have higher standards. That's what I want to tell all you digital playboys. Stop staring at that screen. If you are not beating gold, just beating that digit, you are pathetic. Do something else. Find some nice ladies to please. Really folks, there is more to life, have higher standards, have a big family - all the fakery in the world will not help you in the end, enough make pretend, time to get real.

    Bottom line: If you can't beat real gold, just get real gold, to much digital fantasy is bad for you.
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by motocat View Post
    And if you can, even do business directly with financial transactions in gold bullion, to help cement the idea that gold is money

    you know something is money when its NOT routinely used in transactions.

    good money tends to disappear into safes, vaults and get hidden away securely.


    bad money tends to get spent routinely because people feel its value down the line will be less than what its worth today.

    certainly less than what good money will be worth in future.



    the only time good money is ever spent is during a good arbitrage opportunity or in extreme situations.

    but otherwise, it tends to be hoarded.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by motocat View Post
    I think "parking" in gold is always a good idea, at least if 6 months for more. Anyone who has practiced this over the years would have done FAR better then just keeping it in some near zero rate savings account (even if in some years you take a loss). I say no to bonds -- use gold instead. Yes on tp for tp -- that's the 5% I mention above.

    Gold has had quite a run from 2000 to 2020.

    Hard to tell if it will go a lot higher from here.

    Bitcoin captured gold's thunder and is making a vertical dash up - for how long, we'll see.


    I wouldn't put all eggs in one basket.

    Of all the commodities, oil seems to be the most beaten up at the moment.

    Maybe a bit of oil investing - if you're brave.

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