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Thread: Gold as a replacement for large cash and bond savings

  1. #21

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    Income averaging is smarter than buying when FOMO is controlling your thoughts. That's the old buy high sell low lemming off the cliff way of being fed to the sharks. One must learn to control your emotions and THINK. Hard for many to do these days of liberal school educations.

    A real problem my wife and I have and I'm sure is quite common is the forced parking of much of our assets into the S.M. due to retirement investments via employers and the gov't tax codes we are all forced to follow. We have IRA's, SEP IRA's, 401K's, large amounts of deferred income and foreign stocks issued as stock options and all more or less because of limited choices offered while we are employed. No way to ask for PM in lieu of paper products. Looks good on paper, but a ticking time bomb as far as future wealth if the SHTF.

    I'm now retired, wife is not, and I'm pulling cash out of the system and into PM, but taxes eat up much of those withdrawals due to our combined income level. We've been well advised over the years by my friend and financial advisor, but he's in the S.M. with forced "blinders on" as long as he's working for a big brokerage company too. So many of the so called precious metal advisors are nothing but shills for high priced bullion dealers looking to grab way too much of your wealth in premiums and fees too. Trusting many of them with a IRA filled with high cost PM is highly questionable too, IMHO. I believe a self controlled and self held possession PM IRA is still not quite legal. I wish it was different and we could demand income payment in silver or gold, but forced direct payment into a bank account is the norm these days. The system is not set up for anything other than paper and soon will be all digital, IMHO.

    OBTW, The problem with comparing PM to insurance policies is that you take out insurance many decades ago and pay with expensive fiat only to get cheap fiat payouts all the decades later. PM is different in that manner, it doesn't get deflated as decades go by since it is out of the fiat system. So while we may compare it to insurance that too is not completely correct. It is insurance with an inflation clause built in.

    Going forward with both eyes open hoping and praying to be out of the paper system before things get sticky, but it looks like one heck of a race to the finish these days.
    American Legion Preamble: https://www.legion.org/preamble

  2. #22

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    Having your own business gives you a lot more control on what you can save/invest in, and in what form. I've never been dependent on some big company for this "401K" so many speak about, don't know the limits they place on your choices. I do have a SEP and ROTH that I've used to both reduce my taxes, and play in and out of the digital to physical game, and also some exposure to the SM (which given it is FED supported, it is also wise to have exposure to, don't "bet against the FED")

    Regarding ways you can get paid, if you have your own business, you can ask for cash, or better yet, bullion -- give nice discounts to those who pay in such. And even if a wage slave, can't you request a check (that you can then cash)? There is nothing "illegal" to get paid in PM's, anyone who spreads those fears and lies should be ignored. Never heard of a "precious metal advisor", sounds like just another gimmick the bean counters use to get some work. PM's are not that complicated, the beauty is in their simplicity, and the discrete nature in their storage and use is part of that.

    I see "cost averaging" as simply to view gold as my main currency reserves; yes, it may go up and down short term vs some fiat, but I can rest assured that over time, it will do FAR better then holding any digitally created currency; those who don't know this are simply badly informed (and have short memory).
    Last edited by motocat; 08-01-2020 at 01:17 PM.
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongDonSilver View Post
    I very much afraid that you are correct. I also believe that the average "Joe and Jane" are more worried about getting one more tattoo or nose piercing to worry about what's going to happen to their world in the coming decade or two.
    HA! Your comment reminds me of an exchange I had with a new fellow that had just been hired on by my company back in the early 90's. He had some large tattoos on his forearms, and this was way back before tattoos had become the popular fad that they are now, mainly only seen on sailors, outlaw bikers and convicts. The topic came up of how much he had paid for the "artwork", and he bragged "I have $2300 invested in my tattoos!" I ask him how much he thought he could sell them for, and he answered "You can't SELL them", to which I replied, "Then they aren't INVESTMENTS! If you don't have the expectation of being able to sell something at some point for more than you paid for it, it's not an INVESTMENT!" He didn't have much to say about that.

    I've never been a fan of skin art, but whatever - your body, do with it as you wish. As for myself, I'll put my disposable income into those things that may, at some time in the future, be able to put food in my mouth, protect my family, or God forbid, buy my way out of a dangerous situation.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by motocat View Post
    I don't get your logic - fiat is the safest because it has "intrinsic value of zero"? That entirely defeats one of the prime reasons for money - to preserve wealth. While nothing can guarantee that, gold is still the best. For security from theft, it is relatively easy to hide, and not subject to electronic games difficult to understand. With PM's, value is not entirely on faith or culture (and definitely not government decree), it is also due to the metals being desired for various uses in the real physical economy, jewelry and industrial. I also keep diversified with silver and platinum because of what is the high degree of "faith" in gold. No matter, the faith in gold has strong reason, far stronger then with any fiat, so I will use that as core money. Note -- as per my original post, I do know ones local currency, sea shells or whatever, is also important to have, why I allocate 5%.
    Do not attempt to preserve wealth. The wealth robbers create a unit of wealth to rob and all desires to keep the "wealth" are being locked and imprison. The reason that system architects can keep the "wealth" system is they can quantify labour and fruits to be looted with the infinite creation rights. Gold limit the growth and Empire cannot grow with Gold but always with Fiat. China past all empires all looting gold and silver to prevent private circulation and release fiat notes for thousands of years. Each revolution is just when all people lost faith and blame the Rulers and "recreate" another new fiat and new faith with new hope. The cycle never end ehen people believe that money is a fair unit for exchange. China do not loot USD but replace it with other systems and even distribute the unit to all alliance which commonly criminalised as "bribe" When using fiat, the rulers do not need tax or send armies to rob you anymore and you live as a safe slaves. If you use Gold, it is just prelude to another war to reset and kill all and the game of looting new Gold to create new Gold backed crypto Repeat. Today mafia do not use Gold, they prefer convenience and economy of least energy to get what they dont deserve call theft and rob. In an empire rules like NK and Nazi, money is replaced by the rights of you to live on Earth and death penalty for refusing to obey order. These enslavements method is costly and always failed. So fiat is invented to create an illusion that you keep wealth when in fact fiat depends on ALL when all support fiat. This inter dependant of Master and Slaves achieve a "peaceful" equilibrium.
    He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. ~ Thomas Jefferson

  5. #25

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    Snakeeater - I think you are thinking a bit to much on this, and anyway, us little boat owners never seem to be able to stay afloat. But life is good, we always find a way to get a new leaky boat. The big and powerful can bicker all they want over control over this and that -- in the end, evolution/creation (call it what you may), still rules -- and from what I have seen, those obsessed with worldly power and wealth (and the hedonism and vanity that goes with it) do not typically do so well in that area.

    Others are fee to do what they want based on so many external fears. Gold has worked well for us PM bugs, those saving in fiat and bonds have been comparative fools, and the data to illustrate this is easy to find.
    Last edited by motocat; 08-10-2020 at 04:44 PM.
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  6. #26

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    I see under "gold technical" there is lots of talk about when to buy and sell various precious metals along with miners. For true believers and those knowledgeable about the history of gold as money, and just what fiat is (and it's history), talk of gold is not so much "technical" but rather as part of a core balance in their savings/investments. As per the title of this thread, it can and should be seen as a superior replacement to bonds. Those who have held bonds for so many years have done terribly vs those who held that amount in gold. In regards to miner - my biggest mistake in life has been to think investing in miners was like doubling down on how gold does -- it is not. I am still trying to get out of miners I bought in 2012-2013 and 2008 and earlier, hoping that one day they will at least catch up to the performance of physical gold. Sure, if one can time the extreme lows and highs in gold mining - -there is lots of profit to be made. So if you are a savy trader, you would have skooped them up for cheap in March, not be late to the party and getting into them now. I have actually been selling a little myself.

    Talk of putting 5% in gold is silly. Just get out of bonds, replace that 50% bonds balance ENTIRELY with gold. Maybe not at one time, consider dollar cost averaging. You don't want to be the fool who thinks they can time the market, and then get only at the very highs. Just do it, any new funds you would have put into bonds or long term savings, just put into gold. This does not mean no stocks or trading. It's just time that we all give up on fiat and their bond cousins --and keep in something your politico-banker oligarchs s can't control and create as easily (to fund whatever they think is important). Say say yes to gold and no to debt slavery/usury, say yes to freedom and no to fiat/bonds and the master tricksters lies that go along with it, say yes to saving your family wealth, rather then letting it bleed off in support of more digits for the wealthy.
    Last edited by motocat; 09-19-2020 at 08:37 AM.
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by motocat View Post
    Talk of putting 5% in gold is silly. Just get out of bonds, replace that 50% bonds balance ENTIRELY with gold. Maybe not at one time, consider dollar cost averaging. You don't want to be the fool who thinks they can time the market, and then get only at the very highs. Just do it, any new funds you would have put into bonds or long term savings, just put into gold. This does not mean no stocks or trading. It's just time that we all give up on fiat and their bond cousins --and keep in something your politico-banker oligarchs s can't control and create as easily (to fund whatever they think is important). Say say yes to gold and no to debt slavery/usury, say yes to freedom and no to fiat/bonds and the master tricksters lies that go along with it, say yes to saving your family wealth, rather then letting it bleed off in support of more digits for the wealthy.
    Unless you can find a bond paying real rate of return then you are just bleeding out slowly vs. faster by being in cash. Since inflation is "under" 2% (pure BS) per Powell you need at least 2%, but for the real inflation rate of more like 5-8% you need a 10% bond to stay ahead. Got any paying that? I doubt it. Wait until Powell get his inflation target of over 2% going - that's when the SHTF. I remember Jim Carter and 18% inflation. Fiat does great when that happens. A small fixed monthly pension becomes a deposit on a burger and fries at Chez Mac. Or maybe a loaf of bread. Bonds at 0.18% do so much better, not!
    American Legion Preamble: https://www.legion.org/preamble

  8. #28

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    I have come to the realisation that to enter into the Gold arena there is the price of admission cashing out or roll over fees and premiums to begin.
    Then there is the price of maintenance after you acquire your Gold..be that storage of the gold and or the paper trail to prove your Basis to TPTB (IRS) upon your
    Exit...
    bringing a final point is the price of the Exit...yes the tax burden if you profit or the loss burden if you need to get out of your gold position at a lower $ stance.
    All these considered, to me, I find that gold is really not all that shiny. In fact these same Input, maintenance, and Exit principles apply to many investments.

    My most recent episode with these 3 stages is the sale of my house. My hope is to make some profit, however the stress that I am undergoing is diminishing my return profoundly.
    Because without your health, .......(insert cliche here)

    It is all these things that prevented me from trading my fiat based 401K to a largely gold position. As I also considered your same decision recently.
    KITCO thread I started
    Last edited by vertical1; 09-20-2020 at 08:28 AM.
    Thomas Jefferson is credited with writing, “When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.” The seceding states in the Civil War period issued a similar declaration using the word “tyranny” as opposed to “injustice.”

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by vertical1 View Post
    I have come to the realisation that to enter into the Gold arena there is the price of admission cashing out or roll over fees and premiums to begin.
    Then there is the price of maintenance after you acquire your Gold..be that storage of the gold and or the paper trail to prove your Basis to TPTB (IRS) upon your
    Exit...
    bringing a final point is the price of the Exit...yes the tax burden if you profit or the loss burden if you need to get out of your gold position at a lower $ stance.
    All these considered, to me, I find that gold is really not all that shiny. In fact these same Input, maintenance, and Exit principles apply to many investments.

    My most recent episode with these 3 stages is the sale of my house. My hope is to make some profit, however the stress that I am undergoing is diminishing my return profoundly.
    Because without your health, .......(insert cliche here)

    It is all these things that prevented me from trading my fiat based 401K to a largely gold position. As I also considered your same decision recently.
    KITCO thread I started
    Whether it's PM's, bonds, real estate or whatever you're selling at a profit or loss, written records and receipts of your transactions are of importance, especially when it comes to taxes. And of course, it's no different when entering the 'gold arena' there is a buy price and a sell price. The bottom line is what your total out of pocket is when buying as opposed to profit/loss when selling. It's really not that hard if you're careful and patient when buying or selling anything. I consider the 'tax burden' just another cost of business to be figured in and accounted for.

    I might add, record keeping is a 'discipline' I learned from my grandmother at an early age. Having gone through the great depression, she kept records on everything, including what she spent on food. Records are worth their weight in gold (so to speak) and can mean the difference between profit or loss.
    Last edited by Lawrence; 09-20-2020 at 09:24 AM.
    Stacking since the late 1970's

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by vertical1 View Post
    I have come to the realisation that to enter into the Gold arena there is the price of admission cashing out or roll over fees and premiums to begin.
    Then there is the price of maintenance after you acquire your Gold..be that storage of the gold and or the paper trail to prove your Basis to TPTB (IRS) upon your
    Exit...
    bringing a final point is the price of the Exit...yes the tax burden if you profit or the loss burden if you need to get out of your gold position at a lower $ stance.
    All these considered, to me, I find that gold is really not all that shiny. In fact these same Input, maintenance, and Exit principles apply to many investments.

    My most recent episode with these 3 stages is the sale of my house. My hope is to make some profit, however the stress that I am undergoing is diminishing my return profoundly.
    Because without your health, .......(insert cliche here)

    It is all these things that prevented me from trading my fiat based 401K to a largely gold position. As I also considered your same decision recently.
    KITCO thread I started
    I love the fact that "profit" is defined as receiving more fiat currency in the future than one used to purchased something of fixed quantity IE one ounce of Ag/Au. The ounce of Ag/Au hasn't changed at all, but the crappy fiat currency has dropped in value with time. So not losing net worth is a profit. Perhaps putting fiat into gov't bonds with a negative interest rate will soon also be making a profit per TPB.
    American Legion Preamble: https://www.legion.org/preamble

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