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Thread: Gold as a replacement for large cash and bond savings

  1. #111
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    6

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    Quote Originally Posted by motocat View Post
    How am I loosing "1% per year"? You are here to say gold does not keep up with fiat inflation? I believe it has, however even if not, it has certainly done better than savings in cash or bonds (not to mention it is more discreet) Also please note - -I see my gold holdings as savings - -not an investment. I do have investments, and consider that an entirely different category then gold which is rather part of my core savings, money I expect to hold value, for future use -- no matter to spend on investments, for needed goods, or to pass on to future generations.
    Of course it will do better than savings in cash or bonds.

  2. #112

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    It's happening

    Kinesis KAU (gold) is being introduced as a savings and payment method in partnership with the Indonesian government. So this is no less than the introduction of a gold-based parallel currency, fully supported (and promoted) by the government. Until recently I thought I would never see that day that a national government would voluntarily support a gold-backed currency but here we are .

    This April 16th a Press Conference and PR event will be held to introduce PosGO Syariah to the public. In May, the official inauguration ceremony for PosGO Syariah will be held, with participation by the President Director of PT POS, the Minister of State-Owned Enterprises, other top government officials and Kinesis executives. PosGO Syariah is currently the only mobile app offering digital access to gold on the market, fully compliant with the shariah laws.

    https://kinesis.money/company-news/q...y-update-2021/

    Indonesia is not a rich country, but it has a population of 270 million and a fast growing economy so it counts. And this is only the beginning. Every goldbug should cheer this, regardless whether you are a physical stacker, own a gold ETF or are invested in Kinesis yourself. Re-monetisation of gold is going to take a lot of physical gold off the market, so eventually everybody with long exposure to gold will benefit.
    Last edited by Troglodytes; 04-11-2021 at 09:00 AM.

  3. #113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Troglodytes View Post
    It's happening

    Kinesis KAU (gold) is being introduced as a savings and payment method in partnership with the Indonesian government. So this is no less than the introduction of a gold-based parallel currency, fully supported (and promoted) by the government. Until recently I thought I would never see that day that a national government would voluntarily support a gold-backed currency but here we are .

    This April 16th a Press Conference and PR event will be held to introduce PosGO Syariah to the public. In May, the official inauguration ceremony for PosGO Syariah will be held, with participation by the President Director of PT POS, the Minister of State-Owned Enterprises, other top government officials and Kinesis executives. PosGO Syariah is currently the only mobile app offering digital access to gold on the market, fully compliant with the shariah laws.

    https://kinesis.money/company-news/q...y-update-2021/

    Indonesia is not a rich country, but it has a population of 270 million and a fast growing economy so it counts. And this is only the beginning. Every goldbug should cheer this, regardless whether you are a physical stacker, own a gold ETF or are invested in Kinesis yourself. Re-monetisation of gold is going to take a lot of physical gold off the market, so eventually everybody with long exposure to gold will benefit.
    Interesting; can we trust that the Indonesian government is a rare exception in that it truly is willing to give up much of their ability to control the people (through fiat creation and regulations), just so that the people can have a currency that does not diminish greatly in value over time? That they really favor more independence and freedom for the people over their own power? Does the Indonesian government stand to gain something out of this new gold backed currency?
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  4. #114

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by motocat View Post
    Interesting; can we trust that the Indonesian government is a rare exception in that it truly is willing to give up much of their ability to control the people (through fiat creation and regulations), just so that the people can have a currency that does not diminish greatly in value over time? That they really favor more independence and freedom for the people over their own power? Does the Indonesian government stand to gain something out of this new gold backed currency?
    Of course the government benefits. First of all, this parallel system bypasses banks, so 70% of the population that are currently un-banked or under-banked gets drawn into the modern economy. Although the major banks will also include this currency also in their apps, so everybody can use both. Secondly, parasites like Western Union etc are bypassed when Indonesians that work abroad remit money home using the Kinesis gold currencies. That's the equivalent of billions of dollars saved that now flows into the Indonesian economy. They also understand that capital formation is the basis of economic growth. And finally, the government gets a significant revenue stream from the yield sharing in the Kinesis system that they would otherwise not get. So everybody benefits.

    A monetary system needs to serve ALL stakeholders. But with the current fiat system this is not the case anymore. For more than a decade now, one group gets consistently screwed with inflation and low interest rates that do not compensate for that. It's great to see alternatives emerging now. The Indonesian case is going to demonstrate this new alternative in action on a large scale.

  5. #115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Troglodytes View Post
    Of course the government benefits. First of all, this parallel system bypasses banks, so 70% of the population that are currently un-banked or under-banked gets drawn into the modern economy. Although the major banks will also include this currency also in their apps, so everybody can use both. Secondly, parasites like Western Union etc are bypassed when Indonesians that work abroad remit money home using the Kinesis gold currencies. That's the equivalent of billions of dollars saved that now flows into the Indonesian economy. They also understand that capital formation is the basis of economic growth. And finally, the government gets a significant revenue stream from the yield sharing in the Kinesis system that they would otherwise not get. So everybody benefits.

    A monetary system needs to serve ALL stakeholders. But with the current fiat system this is not the case anymore. For more than a decade now, one group gets consistently screwed with inflation and low interest rates that do not compensate for that. It's great to see alternatives emerging now. The Indonesian case is going to demonstrate this new alternative in action on a large scale.
    You make a very good argument for the Kinesis system, I'm surprised more of us gold bugs have not looked further into this, I certainly will. Perhaps you should (or already have), start a new thread on the Kinesis system, such that all us members here can look further into it -- to give more critique or credit as we find out more?
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  6. #116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Troglodytes View Post
    It's happening

    Kinesis KAU (gold) is being introduced as a savings and payment method in partnership with the Indonesian government. So this is no less than the introduction of a gold-based parallel currency, fully supported (and promoted) by the government. Until recently I thought I would never see that day that a national government would voluntarily support a gold-backed currency but here we are .

    This April 16th a Press Conference and PR event will be held to introduce PosGO Syariah to the public. In May, the official inauguration ceremony for PosGO Syariah will be held, with participation by the President Director of PT POS, the Minister of State-Owned Enterprises, other top government officials and Kinesis executives. PosGO Syariah is currently the only mobile app offering digital access to gold on the market, fully compliant with the shariah laws.

    https://kinesis.money/company-news/q...y-update-2021/

    Indonesia is not a rich country, but it has a population of 270 million and a fast growing economy so it counts. And this is only the beginning. Every goldbug should cheer this, regardless whether you are a physical stacker, own a gold ETF or are invested in Kinesis yourself. Re-monetisation of gold is going to take a lot of physical gold off the market, so eventually everybody with long exposure to gold will benefit.

    Post like this is why I still come here. Thanks
    Small business is the incubator of employment. As it declines, so too do opportunities for first jobs, second chances and economic independence.

  7. #117

    Default

    Quote from inside the article referenced in that link ^^

    "UN Sustainable Development Goals"

    THIS IS AGENDA 21 I am NOT good with this. This is Un-American Globalist knocking at your life and the fragmented freedoms you have remaining.
    Eyes wide Shut

    https://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/
    Last edited by vertical1; 04-15-2021 at 05:22 PM.
    Thomas Jefferson is credited with writing, “When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.” The seceding states in the Civil War period issued a similar declaration using the word “tyranny” as opposed to “injustice.”

  8. #118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Troglodytes View Post
    Of course the government benefits. First of all, this parallel system bypasses banks, so 70% of the population that are currently un-banked or under-banked gets drawn into the modern economy. Although the major banks will also include this currency also in their apps, so everybody can use both. Secondly, parasites like Western Union etc are bypassed when Indonesians that work abroad remit money home using the Kinesis gold currencies. That's the equivalent of billions of dollars saved that now flows into the Indonesian economy. They also understand that capital formation is the basis of economic growth. And finally, the government gets a significant revenue stream from the yield sharing in the Kinesis system that they would otherwise not get. So everybody benefits.

    A monetary system needs to serve ALL stakeholders. But with the current fiat system this is not the case anymore. For more than a decade now, one group gets consistently screwed with inflation and low interest rates that do not compensate for that. It's great to see alternatives emerging now. The Indonesian case is going to demonstrate this new alternative in action on a large scale.
    i support progress in gold back money. The only knock is the gold is still under 3rd party control, a government no less, and gov't can change rules anytime they want. Indonesian gov't is famous for corruption.

  9. #119

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomMan06 View Post

    I think bitcoin is the opposite of gold. People don't hold a lot of gold because they don't think the popularity will increase. People get bitcoin because they think even more people will go even more crazy in the future. Most people only want money for nothing. They don't care what they are gambling on as long as it pays off. If that means playing a crazy game, they will do so.
    I'm old (but not that old) and somewhat well read.

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d...ket_bubble.asp

    TLR version

    "In 1634, tulip mania swept through Holland. "The rage among the Dutch to possess [tulip bulbs] was so great that the ordinary industry of the country was neglected, and the population, even to its lowest dregs, embarked in the tulip trade." A single bulb could be worth as much as 4,000 or even 5,500 florins - since the 1630's florins were gold coins of uncertain weight and quality it is hard to make an accurate estimation of today's value in dollars, but Mackay does give us some points of reference: among other things, 4 tuns of beer cost 32 florins. That's around 1,008 gallons of beer - or 65 kegs of beer. A keg of Coors Light costs around $90, and so 4 tuns of beer ≈ $4,850 and 1 florin ≈ $150. That means that the best of tulips cost upwards of $750,000 in today's money (but with many bulbs trading in the $50,000 - $150,000 range). By 1636, the demand for the tulip trade was so large that regular marts for their sale were established on the Stock Exchange of Amsterdam, in Rotterdam, Harlaem, and other towns. . ."

    In modern discourse "The Greater Fool Theory" has been seen in everything from Beanie Babies, Baseball Cards, to the hottest Christmas Toy being resold on ezBay.

    One BUBBLE I know about is Baseball Cards. My beloved late Dad, a Korean veteran ran an offset lithographic printing press at National Cash Register for 25 years. 1954 - 1979. Among his recurrent print jobs jobs were large sheets of Topps cards.
    During the height of the bubble - I took Dad to see what card show fanatics look like. To see the fervor he helped create.

    His take:

    "The card stock, paper, ink, and press used in the 50s to the 70s is available today. Not one of these experts with a loupe to their eye would be able to tell a new card from an original. They will ultimately REPRINT the most valuable cards for quick cash and diminish the value of 99% of this stuff. And I'm CERTAIN that I'm not the only one who knows this."

    So ask yourself what you know about blockchain mathematical calculations, how they're done, and what it takes before promoting the product.

    Friendly advice. So fad? Likely. An INVESTMENT at $60,000? Pretty fancy file of numbers.
    Last edited by ConanTheLibertarian; 04-15-2021 at 05:10 PM.
    - UPDATED-
    2.4 BILLION people still cook with manure as their fuel.
    3.0 BILLION more people will be born in the next 30 years.

    IEA, Number of people without access to clean cooking by scenario, 2021-2030, IEA, Paris

    More energy. Not less.

  10. #120

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ConanTheLibertarian View Post
    I'm old (but not that old) and somewhat well read.

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d...ket_bubble.asp

    TLR version

    "In 1634, tulip mania swept through Holland. "The rage among the Dutch to possess [tulip bulbs] was so great that the ordinary industry of the country was neglected, and the population, even to its lowest dregs, embarked in the tulip trade." A single bulb could be worth as much as 4,000 or even 5,500 florins - since the 1630's florins were gold coins of uncertain weight and quality it is hard to make an accurate estimation of today's value in dollars, but Mackay does give us some points of reference: among other things, 4 tuns of beer cost 32 florins. That's around 1,008 gallons of beer - or 65 kegs of beer. A keg of Coors Light costs around $90, and so 4 tuns of beer ≈ $4,850 and 1 florin ≈ $150. That means that the best of tulips cost upwards of $750,000 in today's money (but with many bulbs trading in the $50,000 - $150,000 range). By 1636, the demand for the tulip trade was so large that regular marts for their sale were established on the Stock Exchange of Amsterdam, in Rotterdam, Harlaem, and other towns. . ."

    In modern discourse "The Greater Fool Theory" has been seen in everything from Beanie Babies, Baseball Cards, to the hottest Christmas Toy being resold on ezBay.

    One BUBBLE I know about is Baseball Cards. My beloved late Dad, a Korean veteran ran an offset lithographic printing press at National Cash Register for 25 years. 1954 - 1979. Among his recurrent print jobs jobs were large sheets of Topps cards.
    During the height of the bubble - I took Dad to see what card show fanatics look like. To see the fervor he helped create.

    His take:

    "The card stock, paper, ink, and press used in the 50s to the 70s is available today. Not one of these experts with a loupe to their eye would be able to tell a new card from an original. They will ultimately REPRINT the most valuable cards for quick cash and diminish the value of 99% of this stuff. And I'm CERTAIN that I'm not the only one who knows this."

    So ask yourself what you know about blockchain mathematical calculations, how they're done, and what it takes before promoting the product.

    Friendly advice. So fad? Likely. An INVESTMENT at $60,000? Pretty fancy file of numbers.
    the BIG difference here is btc is limited to 21 million. Baseball cards can be reprinted to infinity until value --> to zero

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