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Thread: If The Reset is a Gold Standard

  1. #11

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    I muse that the main reason we can't have a gold standard today is because of current existing government liabilities, mandated liabilities and frivolous lawsuits.

    To many leaches getting money for nothing and too many unneeded bureaucratic systems and bureaucrats sucking up assets and making new bureaucratic liabilities every year.

    The lawyers and bureaucrats run the system, without the FRBanks fiat, the keystones would lose their jobs, and bureaucratic empires.
    Small business is the incubator of employment. As it declines, so too do opportunities for first jobs, second chances and economic independence.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Westerner View Post
    Our industrialized nation was born on a gold standard. And we did it in just less than 200 years and was the leader of the whole world.

    I muse the only reason we now have fiat currency is because of the safety nets first and then the ever increasing beaucracies and their long term liabilities. A nation has to have fiat to make such huge beaucracies! And armies of lawyers sueing for more and more mandated liabilities!

    You bugs know this, but I put it out here for newbies and lurkers.

    If we did go back to a real gold standard and silver monies, we would have to get government back to the size it was before 1913. And tar n feather millions of lawyers and bureaucrats out of town.
    I disagree with your opinion about the reason why we have fiat. I believe that the reason is more simple. It's because the bureaucrats finally came up with an excuse (stated emergency) that was persuasive enough to con the ignorant public into accepting it.

    Debasement of currencies goes back thousands of years. The debasement of the Roman Denarius is well documented, with coins of different dates being of predictable alloys, which are leaner in silver as the dates get later. Fiat is the ultimate debasement tool. There are no constraints upon it's debasement potential, until the public stops accepting it as legal tender (eg Zimbabwe, Wiemar Germany, Argentina, now Zimbabwe again). Debasement has always been an effective tool for coercing the working class out of their just due, until the day that the scam blows apart.

    To date, all fiat currencies have ended badly for the workers. By the time they end, the wealthy have control of enough hard assets that the value of the currency they still hold no longer matters. The USD has had a longer run compared to the average lifespan of fiat. The odds are now stacking against it more heavily, but they were stacked badly in 2008 as well. I thought it would end then, but it didn't. The big question is - When will it happen? Is today the day? 6-months? 6-years? 6-decades?

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
    What is wealth?

    What is money?

    Does someone own a property if they owe on it? Does the bank? In a reset, do the people who saved get all the property? Or do all the banks own everything? Do the people with a mortgage keep their property?

    Is wealth a measure of work / ideas / smarts or something esle?
    What is wealth? - a good question

    What is money? - Mike Maloney does a pretty good job of answering that question - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU

    What is property ownership? - if you hold it & people around you agree that you hold it, it is yours. At this time, we have an elaborate system by which the existing government states who owns what property. Paying money for it is the basic premise of gaining ownership. In the early parts of my lifetime, the US government was stable. Pretty much nobody questioned their statement of who owned what. Now, things seem to be more in flux. We see things like CHOP/CHAZ. We see Marxists running amok, toppling public monuments. The official governments of the world seem less unquestioned than they did a short while ago. Who knows what will become of their statements of who owns what in the coming months.

    Beyond that, many banana republics have nationalized, or otherwise taken control of formerly private property. Who is to say that will not happen here, or globally. Many things have already happened that seemed unthinkable in the past.

    What will happen in the case of a "reset"? - That is a very good question that remains unanswered at this time.

    Since the banks always seem to be the sweethearts of the politicians when something drastic happens, I am going to guess that the banks will get pretty much all the property & then it will be distributed as the politicians see fit. It's not what I think should happen, but it is what I see as most logical to assume based on past events. ...unless the public wakes up, the military refuses to put them down, & the corrupt individuals get sent to prison. Sadly for those who earn a living, I don't see any likelihood of that last option tending in Vegas.
    Last edited by SilverPalm; 07-05-2020 at 06:15 PM.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Westerner View Post
    I muse that the main reason we can't have a gold standard today is because of current existing government liabilities, mandated liabilities and frivolous lawsuits.

    To many leaches getting money for nothing and too many unneeded bureaucratic systems and bureaucrats sucking up assets and making new bureaucratic liabilities every year.

    The lawyers and bureaucrats run the system, without the FRBanks fiat, the keystones would lose their jobs, and bureaucratic empires.
    Now you are getting warm. I can simplify that a little for you. Those who are getting a free ride on the fiat express, are the ones who run the system & have been keeping it going. I will then forecast that they know fiat can't last forever, and they certainly have a plan for an implosion that leaves them remaining on top when the smoke clears after a new "improved" fiat is issued. What that plan is, I don't know. I occupy my mind with a more simple curiosity - will gold continue to be a store of wealth that can get me past this bump in history? Given gold's 5,000 year track record, & the fact that governments & big banks continue to hold much of it, I am leaning towards likely on that one. But, time will tell. The future is unwritten.
    Last edited by SilverPalm; 07-05-2020 at 06:26 PM.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by everything1 View Post
    Gold didn't work, it did not circulate well, and was often hoarded, still is. Silver worked pretty well for a long time, but that was also very tumultuous, read the book "silver" to see how well that worked for us. Au/Ag became commodity instead.
    Did gold "work"? The answer to that question depends on how you define gold's purpose. It was very effective at limiting government's ability to coin excess money. In that way, it worked well. It held/holds value over time very well. Look at what you could get for 1o of gold 100 year ago & what you can get for it now. Compare that to the USD or any other form of fiat. The difference is like night & day.

    Gold did have some issues when it was used as currency. Coins were often filed or clipped, so that holders could steal a small portion of the valuable material before passing the coin on to the next holder. That prompted shop keepers to use sensitive scales to measure & judge the value of each coin to be sure it met minimums. This is onerous to a business. The problem was so pervasive in England, that at times, old Sovereign coins were collected en mass & re-minted to full weight.

    Silver performed in a similar way to gold, but it also had some genuine wear issues over time. Modern clad coins (other than that crappy new penny) actually wear much more slowly compared to silver coins. the stainless steel Lira coins that Italy produced in the past would last almost forever.

    In terms of wear & immunity from being filed or clipped, modern coinage is far superior to gold & silver. If the governments could be trusted to not over extend production, modern currency would be a wonderful thing. Unfortunately, that is not the world that we live in. As for me, I prefer the flaws in silver & gold over the flaws in modern fiat, but that is just my opinion.

  6. #16

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    One thing I have noticed recently, is the reported "coin shortage". I see some big box stores like Lowes, asking for exact change if you want to pay with cash. I recall that some of the European countries had coin shortages shortly before the Euro currency was rolled out. Perhaps the last day of the paper USD is close at hand?

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverPalm View Post
    One thing I have noticed recently, is the reported "coin shortage". I see some big box stores like Lowes, asking for exact change if you want to pay with cash. I recall that some of the European countries had coin shortages shortly before the Euro currency was rolled out. Perhaps the last day of the paper USD is close at hand?
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...rs/3230828001/

  8. #18

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    Yea, I saw that story. It doesn't really make sense to me. If there is reduced coin flow into the banks, there should be reduced coin flow out of the banks to match. Modern circulation coins don't really wear out quickly, so a mint slowdown should not cause a gigantic difference. The story doesn't pass the sniff test in my opinion.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverPalm View Post
    Yea, I saw that story. It doesn't really make sense to me. If there is reduced coin flow into the banks, there should be reduced coin flow out of the banks to match. Modern circulation coins don't really wear out quickly, so a mint slowdown should not cause a gigantic difference. The story doesn't pass the sniff test in my opinion.
    well the zinc cent does in fact wear out extremely rapidly. that was a bad choice from the mint on that one.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverPalm View Post
    Yea, I saw that story. It doesn't really make sense to me. If there is reduced coin flow into the banks, there should be reduced coin flow out of the banks to match. Modern circulation coins don't really wear out quickly, so a mint slowdown should not cause a gigantic difference. The story doesn't pass the sniff test in my opinion.
    Coins are like every-other-single-thing during this “Covid” time.
    Things are simply not circulating and supply chains are slowed to frozen.
    I’ve never thought of them as yet coins are part of the money velocity also sure … velocity’s an indication of economic activity and strength, the higher the better.
    Coins right now are showing / proving / another indicator of a stuck in the mud economy.

    As far as the supply chains .. They’re in the crapper also … shut this, shut that, suppliers, wholesalers, etc etc … Throw in a little trade war spats … The I can buy 600 air conditioners in 4 block radius days have paused (?? Or will they keep us rationed like a good foot on your throat Gov does)… Shelves are not stocked like they’d been previous in any (type) store and I’m in the robust economic and shipping hub of the NE to boot …… The supply-chains simply hampered right now and in turn economic activity.

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