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Thread: Getting very Late in the Game...

  1. #81

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    I like Stockman and agree with most of what he says except one. The Central banks are acting in concert, and they will stop raising rates and tightening their balance sheets as soon as there is a whiff of trouble
    ( they did this last month) If that does not work, they will lower rates and inflate their balance sheets. As long as they do so in concert, it will work for some time. It will fail eventually due to mathematics, and or civil unrest ( policy creates ever widening income and wealth inequality). That is why the bond market ( larger and deemed wiser than the equity market) has such low yields. They believe, as I have, that the Central Banks will not administer the medicine we need now ( higher rates) to reduce the out of control debt creation. They know it would be painful and they want to delay it until they have moved on.

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  5. #85

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    Here they come! New loan outfits. They are set up in a strip mall, this isn't a cash loan this says personal loan. I was sent a letter in the mail. Up to 4,000. 24-36%

    Yeah, I'd say it's getting a bit later in the game when we see more and more bank type places setting up shop anywhere they can.

    Mariner Finance, a fast-growing consumer lending company, has been accused of predatory practices. Many of their customers end up in court buried in debt. The company has grown substantially over the past four years and today is connected to former U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner.

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by everything1 View Post
    Here they come! New loan outfits. They are set up in a strip mall, this isn't a cash loan this says personal loan. I was sent a letter in the mail. Up to 4,000. 24-36%

    Yeah, I'd say it's getting a bit later in the game when we see more and more bank type places setting up shop anywhere they can.

    Mariner Finance, a fast-growing consumer lending company, has been accused of predatory practices. Many of their customers end up in court buried in debt. The company has grown substantially over the past four years and today is connected to former U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner.
    A quick google search shows Mariner Finance provides personal loans for borrowers with bad credit, so those rates aren't terribly surprising. The direct ads are generally how those places work as lower income people with poor credit generally don't generally have the time to seek out lenders, schedule appointments, or have the means to apply for traditional loans. It tends to be more opportunistic. Some of these kinds of places can be very grimy.
    Last edited by Ryanferr; 02-17-2019 at 12:04 AM.
    The answers are in the data

  7. #87

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    Well it's obvious to me, they are not looking for bad credit, they are looking for warm bodies. I would suspect Mariner Finance will provide a personal loan to anyone who's got the collateral/job, etc. to make the paperwork right.

    Of course it's grimy, they have the lowest rating between Avant and One Main, competitors is my guess, and they are trolling, and so they wouldn't know that..

    But, they still got my name/address from somewhere. My score is 822.. I could tap savings accounts, sell metal, sell a vehicle, HELOC, cash advance a CC, or just go to my CU who would gladly give me a personal loan.

    Mariner Finance is owned and managed by a $11.2 billion private equity fund controlled by Warburg Pincus, a storied New York firm. The president of Warburg Pincus is Timothy F. Geithner, who, as treasury secretary in the Obama administration, condemned predatory lenders.

    This guy is investing in CC companies, life insurance, mobile payments, even China electric car companies (energy), China distressed property venture? If I could make a guess what these guys are chasing to ride up, I'd say fintech, as they have a great website. They are smart going asian, because those economies are screaming no matter what anybody says, they have big GDP. But they'll take it anywhere they can get it.

    And, they are doing quite well financially, venture capitalists.

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by everything1 View Post
    Well it's obvious to me, they are not looking for bad credit, they are looking for warm bodies. I would suspect Mariner Finance will provide a personal loan to anyone who's got the collateral/job, etc. to make the paperwork right.

    Of course it's grimy, they have the lowest rating between Avant and One Main, competitors is my guess, and they are trolling, and so they wouldn't know that..

    But, they still got my name/address from somewhere. My score is 822.. I could tap savings accounts, sell metal, sell a vehicle, HELOC, cash advance a CC, or just go to my CU who would gladly give me a personal loan.

    Mariner Finance is owned and managed by a $11.2 billion private equity fund controlled by Warburg Pincus, a storied New York firm. The president of Warburg Pincus is Timothy F. Geithner, who, as treasury secretary in the Obama administration, condemned predatory lenders.

    This guy is investing in CC companies, life insurance, mobile payments, even China electric car companies (energy), China distressed property venture? If I could make a guess what these guys are chasing to ride up, I'd say fintech, as they have a great website. They are smart going asian, because those economies are screaming no matter what anybody says, they have big GDP. But they'll take it anywhere they can get it.

    And, they are doing quite well financially, venture capitalists.
    Warburg Pincus acquired Mariner before Geithner joined the firm. Warburg Pincus is a huge private equity fund and has been around for a very, very long time, so the acquisition isn't directly tied to Geitner.

    I agree with you it's about bodies, hence the direct mailers. It's a murky space -- on one hand installment lenders fill a void left by banks and other traditional lenders...if you have crap credit and multiple bankruptcies, a traditional lender won't extend you a personal loan on an unsecured basis -- at least not usually. The fact alternative lenders fill that void is fine -- credit can theoretically be extended to anyone so long as the lender is comfortable with the return. I only have a gripe with those kind of lenders if they market their product in deceptive ways....often times the direct mailers skirt the line in how appropriately their loan product is presented to consumers. Unfortunately it seems like the CFPB is getting ready to remove a lot of the regulations that preside over the installment / payday lending space that came into effect after the financial crisis.

    That all aside, these types of lenders exist simply because there is a void. Low credit people have demand for credit just as rich, high credit, medium credit, and traditional business people do. Traditional lenders generally won't touch super risky borrowers with direct unsecured loans, so an air pocket exists in that market. Those who are willing to stomach the risk and service those kinds of loans enter the market and need to be compensated appropriately for the amount of risk they take on. Institutions like Marine have existed in this part of the market for a long, long time. Some are legit and fine, others are grimy.

    Either way I wouldn't treat a mailer from one of these guys as indicative of anything on the macro level. I got a direct mailer yesterday from a car dealer saying they were desperate for my model and year vehicle and they would pay "up to" a certain number (up to being the key caveat, but that was in the fine print while the number itself was in huge bold letters) and that I should rush in right away to take advantage of the incredible fact my car is in such high demand. But at the end of the day it's nothing more than a cheap ad aimed at getting bodies in the door.
    Last edited by Ryanferr; 02-17-2019 at 08:19 PM.
    The answers are in the data

  9. #89

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    I know people who have filed for bankruptcy and are swimming in 20 times more debt now than they defaulted on last time. Really, they are trolling for people to acquire and service debt obligations.

    Car flyers, that's a regular thing, I see those more often, not to mention the litany of TV commercials. I even get the occasional realtor mailing, quickenloans, even my CU pushes HELOCS.

    I think more financiers want to get into this game, it's easy money, and it's just that their are multiple multi-levels that more of the commoner can climb aboard at. I don't see it as competitive, I just see more players. Increasing risk, spreading risk.

    To some degree, it seems to me that the more $ you've got, the more they'd like to borrow you. Like for instance, logging into my CC website I get reminded to adjust my income so I can increase my limit.

  10. #90

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    Ok, I have the letter, lets break this down a bit. You may have money available now! up to $x,000* Your invited! Debt consolidation, unexpected expenses or bigger seasonal projects like: Household bills! Home Improvement! Planning a Family Vacation!
    Checkyour offers online without affecting your credit*
    Follow us on social media for information on the #SharingisCaring Sweepstakes and your chance to win!
    *See back for important information.
    Prohibited use of proceeds - Loan proceeds may not be used for business or commercial purposes, to finance direct postsecondary education expense, for purchase of securities, for gambling or any illegal purpose
    15 day satisfaction guarantee.

    This is baiting.

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