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Thread: Time to sell Rhodium?

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  1. #1

    Default Time to sell Rhodium?

    I got into Rhodium several years ago, at some 1100/oz with physical bars, that though ugly, you to have in a form you could actually hold vs the sponges they used before. Looking at extreme price differences of the past, I believed it was a good bet on a "dark horse" at a price that I could not see falling much further.

    I was wrong -- Rhodium fell to $600/oz at one point -- my interest, however, was gone having been made more aware of the very costly premiums ($200/oz). What that meant -- was that even with a $200 upward movement, still no gain. I vowed to never get Rhodium again.

    I plan to keep that vow. However, the big upward swing in Rhodium has finally come -- I see $1640 at now. Is it time to sell (50% profit!) -- or can we expect much more from this very temperamental PM? I'm not into PM's for being volatile -- so would like to unload. However -- is this just the beginning of a bigger swing, and one should wait for even more profit? Can this be from just more regular gasoline cars vs diesel, and if so, is it perhaps short lived, due to regular gas powered cars being sure to loose vs electric in the 2020's and Rhodium is bound to go back sub $1000/oz?

    Would appreciate any input with knowledge on this matter -- I did not myself read of any such large upward movements being predicted, and maybe should now take advantage of getting out at a good price -- or maybe someone knows reasons for more of a big swing to come? If I wait -- maybe to $2K, or even higher? Any suggested places of selling such metal (I've never sold Rhodium before).
    Last edited by motocat; 10-24-2017 at 02:59 PM.
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by motocat View Post
    I got into Rhodium several years ago, at some 1100/oz with physical bars, that though ugly, you to have in a form you could actually hold vs the sponges they used before. Looking at extreme price differences of the past, I believed it was a good bet on a "dark horse" at a price that I could not see falling much further.

    I was wrong -- Rhodium fell to $600/oz at one point -- my interest, however, was gone having been made more aware of the very costly premiums ($200/oz). What that meant -- was that even with a $200 upward movement, still no gain. I vowed to never get Rhodium again.

    I plan to keep that vow. However, the big upward swing in Rhodium has finally come -- I see $1640 at now. Is it time to sell (50% profit!) -- or can we expect much more from this very temperamental PM? I'm not into PM's for being volatile -- so would like to unload. However -- is this just the beginning of a bigger swing, and one should wait for even more profit? Can this be from just more regular gasoline cars vs diesel, and if so, is it perhaps short lived, due to regular gas powered cars being sure to loose vs electric in the 2020's and Rhodium is bound to go back sub $1000/oz?

    Would appreciate any input with knowledge on this matter -- I did not myself read of any such large upward movements being predicted, and maybe should now take advantage of getting out at a good price -- or maybe someone knows reasons for more of a big swing to come? If I wait -- maybe to $2K, or even higher? Any suggested places of selling such metal (I've never sold Rhodium before).
    motocat, kitco pool is buying at $1540 plus shipping today so i would imagine they would pay the same outside of the pool. i personally think it is going up but it is my gamble that i am willing to make. you paid 1100 so you are in good shape to make several hundred on it. recently paid average 1530 for mine.
    Last edited by ynot2k; 10-24-2017 at 04:43 PM. Reason: pms go both ways. simply send one so as to keep it within kitco rules. thanks.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by motocat View Post
    I got into Rhodium several years ago, at some 1100/oz with physical bars, that though ugly, you to have in a form you could actually hold vs the sponges they used before. Looking at extreme price differences of the past, I believed it was a good bet on a "dark horse" at a price that I could not see falling much further.

    I was wrong -- Rhodium fell to $600/oz at one point -- my interest, however, was gone having been made more aware of the very costly premiums ($200/oz). What that meant -- was that even with a $200 upward movement, still no gain. I vowed to never get Rhodium again.

    I plan to keep that vow. However, the big upward swing in Rhodium has finally come -- I see $1640 at now. Is it time to sell (50% profit!) -- or can we expect much more from this very temperamental PM? I'm not into PM's for being volatile -- so would like to unload. However -- is this just the beginning of a bigger swing, and one should wait for even more profit? Can this be from just more regular gasoline cars vs diesel, and if so, is it perhaps short lived, due to regular gas powered cars being sure to loose vs electric in the 2020's and Rhodium is bound to go back sub $1000/oz?

    Would appreciate any input with knowledge on this matter -- I did not myself read of any such large upward movements being predicted, and maybe should now take advantage of getting out at a good price -- or maybe someone knows reasons for more of a big swing to come? If I wait -- maybe to $2K, or even higher? Any suggested places of selling such metal (I've never sold Rhodium before).
    I dumped all the Rhodium I had. The premiums are a killer on this one. No dealers around me would pay more than 80% of spot. So even though you have these massive gains, It had to move a long way to get back to where it was when I bought it. I was barely able to break even on this one. No more Rhodium for me EVER.

    Of course, now that I've sold, I fully expect it to go back to $10K/oz.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodium_Cowboy View Post
    I dumped all the Rhodium I had. The premiums are a killer on this one. No dealers around me would pay more than 80% of spot. So even though you have these massive gains, It had to move a long way to get back to where it was when I bought it. I was barely able to break even on this one. No more Rhodium for me EVER.

    Of course, now that I've sold, I fully expect it to go back to $10K/oz.
    why didnt you sell to an online source?

  5. #5

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    Given the $200 buy sell spread - I think I'm going to wait until about $2000 to sell -- that way I can figure below a 10% loss in premium -- hard to justify more of such cost.

    However, will this buy sell spread get higher if it does go to $2K? If so -- will sell before whatever time the current $200 spread would typically increase. Anyone with any knowledge about increase in premium at higher values?

    And one more question -- why did those who are dependent on Rhodium for their business - -not stock up on a lot at sub 1000K values? Seems like that would be common sense -- not needing to pay twice as much today, if they had saved some just a few months ago?? It's not as if they did not get any warnings on Rhodium price volatility given the fun up to $10K a few years ago...
    Last edited by motocat; 10-25-2017 at 11:23 AM.
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by motocat View Post
    Given the $200 buy sell spread - I think I'm going to wait until about $2000 to sell -- that way I can figure below a 10% loss in premium -- hard to justify more of such cost.

    However, will this buy sell spread get higher if it does go to $2K? If so -- will sell before whatever time the current $200 spread would typically increase. Anyone with any knowledge about increase in premium at higher values?

    And one more question -- why did those who are dependent on Rhodium for their business - -not stock up on a lot at sub 1000K values? Seems like that would be common sense -- not needing to pay twice as much today, if they had saved some just a few months ago?? It's not as if they did not get any warnings on Rhodium price volatility given the fun up to $10K a few years ago...
    Because of the past.

    I heard it was someone at Ford that took the gamble to go all out and purchase heaps of Rh to combat the rise in Platinum and Palladium and that's what sent it to $10K.

    Look at Palladium rising again, and see how it is affecting Rh, it's like history is repeating itself.

    Palladium eventually cooled off and they ended up writing off something like $1billion!!

    So I doubt that they are going to make that mistake again and are wary about putting in big buys.

    There must have been a surplus around the price dropped like lead, but reports have it that the mines in SA have cut back on production and we might be back in the era of lack of supply.

    Like you say, it would make sense to buy it by the lorry load at the levels it has been.

    But it looks like they are starting to take notice and putting in some buys again to hedge against the risk of it getting out of control again.

    To answer the question about the spread, try looking at the historical bidding price of Rh when it was at $10K. You will find that it wasn't anything like it is at the lower levels.

    Plus you could also invest in the XRH0:LN which doesn't have much of a spread.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/XRH0:LN
    Last edited by midiman; 10-25-2017 at 02:29 PM.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by midiman View Post
    Because of the past.

    I heard it was someone at Ford that took the gamble to go all out and purchase heaps of Rh to combat the rise in Platinum and Palladium and that's what sent it to $10K.

    Look at Palladium rising again, and see how it is affecting Rh, it's like history is repeating itself.

    Palladium eventually cooled off and they ended up writing off something like $1billion!!

    So I doubt that they are going to make that mistake again and are wary about putting in big buys.

    There must have been a surplus around the price dropped like lead, but reports have it that the mines in SA have cut back on production and we might be back in the era of lack of supply.

    Like you say, it would make sense to buy it by the lorry load at the levels it has been.

    But it looks like they are starting to take notice and putting in some buys again to hedge against the risk of it getting out of control again.

    To answer the question about the spread, try looking at the historical bidding price of Rh when it was at $10K. You will find that it wasn't anything like it is at the lower levels.

    Plus you could also invest in the XRH0:LN which doesn't have much of a spread.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/XRH0:LN
    When Rhodium went under 1K an oz, I looked around for Rhodium based ETF's -- and the buy sell spreads were similar to dealing in physical directly. Maybe I just overlooked XRH0:LN -- is it really only a 3% spread (or am I reading wrong)-- and was this the case at sub $1,000? Why would other Rhodium ETF's have much higher premiums yet still get more business?

    Regarding those who are buying now -- I just don't know why they did not just a few month ago at less then half the cost, it's not like anything has drastically changed -- or has it? Also -- how dependent is Rhodium on Palladium price? Any article explaining this?
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  8. #8

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    Premiums seem to be expensive. But its quality is quite OK and of course I still want to be loyal to it.

  9. #9

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    platinum is blasting upward so i think another significant rise in rhodium is definitely in order.

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