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Thread: What's the point of NGC or PCGS grading for brand new 2017 coins?

  1. #11

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    One of the reasons the grading companies came about was people were being ripped off by dealers. Too many uneducated buyers got hosed paying thousands for gold coins that appraised to less than half their purchased value. And yet the cycle continues.
    "That's not money" - Ben Bernanke

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by and4rik View Post
    One of the reasons the grading companies came about was people were being ripped off by dealers. Too many uneducated buyers got hosed paying thousands for gold coins that appraised to less than half their purchased value. And yet the cycle continues.
    Investors not collectors get taken. They buy rare wine by the case that's faked, buy counterfeit coins in plastic. Too much money and no idea of what they're buying, just as long as it is hot. Tell them that you have MS85 "magic beans" coins and they'll line up to pay double or triple without even knowing what the MS number means.

    IMHO, thinking that MS69 is rare when there's 100's of thousands, if not millions, of bullion ASE cranked out over the years and put into plastic the second they are produced. I say bullion, not "coins" because not one will ever circulate as a coin at face value. How many ASE's in original mint tubes are less than MS69? Slabs take up space.

    IMHO, the only difference with government bullion over private bullion is the mark up over spot, but I buy for the silver content not dreams. Look back at proof sets of the '60's and '70's and see if any of them ever paid off for the original purchaser. Silver is silver when push comes to shove - so many holders of ASE's might find this out when they try to sell to a LCS. Yes, if you can find other "investors" to peddle your coins to you can make a profit. At least until at some point the market gets saturated. I hope I'm wrong, but I for one will not pay much over bullion round prices for ASE's, slabbed or not.
    Do your own due diligence

    I stand united with my friends & family in Canada who seek freedom.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongDonSilver View Post
    Investors not collectors get taken. They buy rare wine by the case that's faked, buy counterfeit coins in plastic. Too much money and no idea of what they're buying, just as long as it is hot. Tell them that you have MS85 "magic beans" coins and they'll line up to pay double or triple without even knowing what the MS number means.

    IMHO, thinking that MS69 is rare when there's 100's of thousands, if not millions, of bullion ASE cranked out over the years and put into plastic the second they are produced. I say bullion, not "coins" because not one will ever circulate as a coin at face value. How many ASE's in original mint tubes are less than MS69? Slabs take up space.

    IMHO, the only difference with government bullion over private bullion is the mark up over spot, but I buy for the silver content not dreams. Look back at proof sets of the '60's and '70's and see if any of them ever paid off for the original purchaser. Silver is silver when push comes to shove - so many holders of ASE's might find this out when they try to sell to a LCS. Yes, if you can find other "investors" to peddle your coins to you can make a profit. At least until at some point the market gets saturated. I hope I'm wrong, but I for one will not pay much over bullion round prices for ASE's, slabbed or not.
    Your thoughts are right on graded ms-69 modern bullion coins, a complete waste of money. Although if you are trying to complete a set of Kookaburra or Koala,
    (especially Libertads) then most find the older issuance is hard to find graded ms-70.
    Many make profits when a new issue comes out, as a 2016 Kookaburra MS-70 First Strike or other, Most new coins come out and if you have a venue or the will to sell these there
    is room for profits. I most always buy a lot of 10 MS-70 First strike Bullion only coins when they are first offered at pre sale and they are gone shortly after I receive them. Leaving a reduced premium for the one or two I wish to keep.
    There are also other coins such as the ones recognised by the World Money Fair who host the leading bullion coins for that specific year by Numismatists. These are hot when first come out.
    Silver is silver when push comes to shove , If someone has no outside venue to sell, then yes, stick with bullion only. I mix Govt issue bullion with my generics and always look
    at lowering my premium paid overall.
    I Have a record of ounces and premiums paid only, as I always try to lower my premium paid cost. Spot I have not much control over
    Last edited by Mytal; 07-15-2017 at 03:08 AM.

  4. #14

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    I hope that any new investor reads this thread and realizes that PM's are not the easy road to riches. Trading at highs and lows can increase your stash if you are wise. Trading paper PM's if you are a day trader is also a method to go broke or vast payouts. But thinking plain old silver is going to give 25% ROI per year leads to heartache.

    I understand your desire/liking of certain coins and as long as you buy and sell a few extras to pay the stip or vig then that's a smart move. I try to pick up Britannia's when I can find them priced right. Used to be easier when nobody wanted them.
    Do your own due diligence

    I stand united with my friends & family in Canada who seek freedom.

  5. #15

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    I buy mostly slabbed (certified) coins now (I don't really buy PM's to stack anymore, just turn a profit). Yes there is a large markup, but they sell very quick because I hypothesize buyers have more confidence that they are buying something legitimate.

    I buy 2 types of slabbed coins, and I buy in bulk.

    1) MS/PR 70 perfect specimens at a discount price. (eg Eagles PR 70 - $65)
    2) MS/PR 69 at a price slightly above spot. (eg Kooks MS 69 - $23)

    I have made a profit on every single sale of slabbed coins. This is the only money PM's have ever given me back and its barely enough to sustain this being a hobby (don't get me started by calling this an investment GRRRR).

  6. #16

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    Is the grading done manually, by people?

    It seems like we're at a point where grading could be automated with computerized scanning and camera systems. At some point, that's got to be more efficient and reliable than having people do it by hand, and would reduce the premiums over spot for graded coins.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phronesis View Post
    Is the grading done manually, by people?

    It seems like we're at a point where grading could be automated with computerized scanning and camera systems. At some point, that's got to be more efficient and reliable than having people do it by hand, and would reduce the premiums over spot for graded coins.
    I once argued this point about how we still having a Home Plate Umpire calling balls/strikes
    Mistakes will always be made when humans are directly involved
    But, then again, isn't that more "life like", more "real"?


    I've also noticed there's now programs the TPG'ers offer where they will take a photo of your coin for xx amount of money

    I began to wonder why would I, as the coin caretaker, want a photo of my own coin
    I can look at it when I want to
    Then I wondered why the TPG'ers weren't taking pictures already, especially of fakes, questionable coins, high value coins, VAMs, errors, etc if only to provide themselves with relevant data for comparison of other coins that will eventually be submitted for authentication
    Then I thought, hey, they probably already are taking pictures but they've now found a way to get paid for building up this data base

    eh, I would do it that way
    Honor for US, Justice for Our Children! Now!

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chump Change View Post
    I once argued this point about how we still having a Home Plate Umpire calling balls/strikes
    Mistakes will always be made when humans are directly involved
    But, then again, isn't that more "life like", more "real"?


    I've also noticed there's now programs the TPG'ers offer where they will take a photo of your coin for xx amount of money

    I began to wonder why would I, as the coin caretaker, want a photo of my own coin
    I can look at it when I want to
    Then I wondered why the TPG'ers weren't taking pictures already, especially of fakes, questionable coins, high value coins, VAMs, errors, etc if only to provide themselves with relevant data for comparison of other coins that will eventually be submitted for authentication
    Then I thought, hey, they probably already are taking pictures but they've now found a way to get paid for building up this data base

    eh, I would do it that way
    What are TPG'ers?

  9. #19

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    I hate slabbed or any sort of grading that creates a premium. For instance I buy pre '64 by the face value, no culls. If I sell I sell by the face value, no culls. In $1,000 face value bag there could be 10,000 dimes, 4,000 quarters or 2,000 halves, but not a care in the world because every single coin is fungible. Same thing with bullion; there may be a modest premium of eagles over maples over generics and everything else, but any two of the same are fungible.

    A while back I started liquidating a collection of BU halves, I still have a few of those suckers laying around. When each stupid coin has its own value it takes forever to sell right unless you really make your asking price attractive. Nowadays I rather stack than try and collect coins.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by nergal View Post
    All my eagles are certified .999 ag. That's good enough in terms of certification for me. Got a call a couple of days ago from some Fancy Dan coin company wanting to sell me 70 graded, 2017 slabbed eagles for "the one time only price of $175 each." Told her I collect bullion. Her response, "I've got the deal for you then, tubes of 20 new 2017 ASE for only $675." How do these folks stay in business?
    The same way a loon like Trump becomes president of the United States, because America is full of extremely ignorant people. And to stay on topic with the OP, no doubt, grading modern bullion is a complete scam, but as long as there is demand there will be supply.
    Last edited by blitzdude; 07-16-2017 at 05:25 PM. Reason: q
    Buy Low Sell High

    Keeping it simple with the Eagles, Maples and Krugs....

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