The u.s. 10 Year Bond...

[Ryanferr]

well they used toilet paper on both sides,

I.E. by wiping their a$$ with the clean side, they had their hand full with former sh**... which means that it wasn't such a bright idea.

I mean that thinking that by selling paper to buy other paper is a similar way of thinking: will it be such a bright idea?

Golditiki2+++

Eh, you can say that about anything. Selling paper for a hunk of metal that doesn't do anything; selling paper for digital bits that don't do anything; selling paper for other paper that doesn't do anything; selling paper for shells that don't do anything, etc, etc, etc.

[golditiki2]

Eh, you can say that about anything. Selling paper for a hunk of metal that doesn't do anything; selling paper for digital bits that don't do anything; selling paper for other paper that doesn't do anything; selling paper for shells that don't do anything, etc, etc, etc.

I understand that people sell to buy something else, a house, a car, a service, a commodity ( e.g. gold ), but selling paper for paper?
A bit silly IMO.

PS gold also does something, it preserves the currency value of yr savings without being bothered or risk that the company you invest in goes broke or the Dow just faints or the bonds are suddenly good for a ticker tape parade. At least when buying gold i have the stuff.

PPS The problem of gold is not gold, it are the minds of the wild lads who jump in when they shouldn't, and stay on the sidelines when they should buy, but that is of course valid for everything.

BTW I read you quit 2012 buying gold and are all the time arguing against gold, why are you still on the Forum? Just to ridiculize gold?

D+

[Ryanferr]

I understand that people sell to buy something else, a house, a car, a service, a commodity ( e.g. gold ), but selling paper for paper?
A bit silly IMO.

PS gold also does something, it preserves the currency value of yr savings without being bothered or risk that the company you invest in goes broke or the Dow just faints or the bonds are suddenly good for a ticker tape parade. At least when buying gold i have the stuff.

PPS The problem of gold is not gold, it are the minds of the wild lads who jump in when they shouldn't, and stay on the sidelines when they should buy, but that is of course valid for everything.

BTW I read you quit 2012 buying gold and are all the time arguing against gold, why are you still on the Forum? Just to ridiculize gold?

D+

1) It's about balancing risk and return and relative value. If B- rated loans/bonds are paying a 18.2% yield, while BBB paper is paying 0.5%, investors will buy the B- paper rather than the BBB paper. That's a crazy, extreme example, but hopefully you get the point. Most investors don't really care what the underlying asset is, they care about the return. I don't see what is silly about that, but to each their own I suppose. It is also probably worth mentioning that a lot of institutional investors exist only to invest in debt products. That's specifically what CLOs, for example, do. Retail investors have a lot more options.

2) Plenty of assets preserve value and PMs are volatile over the short run just as stocks or anything else. Yes there are differences, but very few beyond the "gold bugs" view gold as some super special investment. I don't intend to rehash debates we have had several times, but for better or for worse, right or wrong, most investors don't view gold as anything special and enjoy inflation protection in other assets.

3) I have not been buying PMs for the past 5 years or so because of the relative value I mentioned in point 1. Why invest in PMs that have been falling when I could invest in stocks that have been roaring? When the dynamic flips, I suspect I will return to PMs. But until them, I am not too interested in them until they hit my price points. That doesn't mean I am here to ridicule gold. I share my opinions and I make no attempt to hide the fact I don't think gold is anything special which bothers some people here, but it is what it is. There will come a time where stocks fall out of my favor too. It's just the way it is. IMO you gotta go with what is happening around you rather than fighting it, but everyone has their own approaches.

[golditiki2]

1) It's about balancing risk and return and relative value. If B- rated loans/bonds are paying a 18.2% yield, while BBB paper is paying 0.5%, investors will buy the B- paper rather than the BBB paper. That's a crazy, extreme example, but hopefully you get the point. Most investors don't really care what the underlying asset is, they care about the return. I don't see what is silly about that, but to each their own I suppose. It is also probably worth mentioning that a lot of institutional investors exist only to invest in debt products. That's specifically what CLOs, for example, do. Retail investors have a lot more options.

2) Plenty of assets preserve value and PMs are volatile over the short run just as stocks or anything else. Yes there are differences, but very few beyond the "gold bugs" view gold as some super special investment. I don't intend to rehash debates we have had several times, but for better or for worse, right or wrong, most investors don't view gold as anything special and enjoy inflation protection in other assets.

3) I have not been buying PMs for the past 5 years or so because of the relative value I mentioned in point 1. Why invest in PMs that have been falling when I could invest in stocks that have been roaring? When the dynamic flips, I suspect I will return to PMs. But until them, I am not too interested in them until they hit my price points. That doesn't mean I am here to ridicule gold. I share my opinions and I make no attempt to hide the fact I don't think gold is anything special which bothers some people here, but it is what it is. There will come a time where stocks fall out of my favor too. It's just the way it is. IMO you gotta go with what is happening around you rather than fighting it, but everyone has their own approaches.

accept your points 2 and 3, but point 1 is extremely risky a) I remember; you were maybe not yet born, but some icelandic bonds were paying 19 pct and they wanted me to buy. When i said that it was a sign that it would collapse, they laughed, but did not laugh anymore when it collapsed and they lost their money. I never would buy something which promises me 18 pct. It is BAD gambling, not even gambling. b) actually I think the differences between the paper they sell and the paper to be bought might be imaginary.

Golditiki2+++

[Ryanferr]

accept your points 2 and 3, but point 1 is extremely risky a) I remember; you were maybe not yet born, but some icelandic bonds were paying 19 pct and they wanted me to buy. When i said that it was a sign that it would collapse, they laughed, but did not laugh anymore when it collapsed and they lost their money. I never would buy something which promises me 18 pct. It is BAD gambling, not even gambling. b) actually I think the differences between the paper they sell and the paper to be bought might be imaginary.

Golditiki2+++

Like I said, it is balancing risk and reward. Investors analyze the risk and make their own investment decision. Every investor is different. Some are willing to mess with risky assets, some aren't. It isn't necessarily any more or less risky than going between gold and silver or platinum. Each one has their own investment merits, risks, and price. Similarly some chose to invest in mining equities because the returns can be very large, though the risk increases too

I doubt investors are rolling out of investment grade bonds and buying Greek bonds (CLOs for example have specific requirements in what kinds of assets they can hold and what % of the CLO must be allocated to certain rated debt investments), but yes, any investment can result in losses.

[golditiki2]

Like I said, it is balancing risk and reward. Investors analyze the risk and made their own investment decision. Every investor is different. Some are willing to mess with risky assets, some aren't. It isn't necessarily any more or less risky than going between gold and silver or platinum. Each one has their own investment merits, risks, and price. Similarly some chose to invest in mining equities because the returns can be very large, though the risk increases too

I doubt investors are rolling out of investment grade bonds and buying Greek bonds (CLOs for example have specific requirements in what kinds of assets they can hold and what % of the CLO must be allocated to certain rated debt investments), but yes, any investment can result in losses.

Yes, of course, as with everything one has to know what he does. Agree with that, and i can understand that what i wouldn't touch might be the pleasure of others.

golditiki2+++

[silverone]

2.622 this morning..

[bitcoin]

2.622 this morning..

wake me up @ 3

[bitcoin]

http://www.safehaven.com/article/439...ation-stalking


http://static.safehaven.com/authors/...07_k_large.png

[golditiki2]

http://www.safehaven.com/article/439...ation-stalking


http://static.safehaven.com/authors/...07_k_large.png

Even if reality would be halfway between the official and the shadowstats, the situation is not a brilliant one and should incite people to think twice about being so negative towards gold...

Golditiki2+++