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Thread: Negative Interest Rates....

  1. #21
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    Jan 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConanTheLibertarian View Post
    Similarly U-6 Unemployment is the other number the US doesn't really want people to track.
    It runs about twice U-3.
    Most folks would say unemployment is 4%, not 8%. Because that's what they have been told.
    Like CPI, its an easier pill to swallow. Stroked data.

    When you talk 95 million not in the workforce, things start getting real.

    In the old days, we would add Inflation (CPI) and Unemployment to get Misery Index.
    It made for great economic discussions. Paul Volcker era.
    IMO. Reagan is remembered more for the reduction in Misery Index than the Brandenburg Gate Speech.
    1980s stock market was legendary.
    Understand your point...but, sometimes I wonder. In Reagan's day, how many people of employment age (what is that considered...18 to 55?) were not looking for work (for what ever reason).

    Even population adjusted, how many people of working age (today) are not employable due to drugs or some "disability" that pays them more than a service or hospitality job?

    Could U6 be "clouded" due to "disturbed people? Just asking as there is so much talk about just "addiction" today, that I wonder what "contribution" it makes.
    Who are the righteous? ....Markpti

    What value did Burisma think to gain by hiring Hunter Biden as a Board member vs ALL other choices?

    Those who cannot articulate the other argument do not fully understand their own argument.

    "Much can be done by wise legislation and by resolute enforcement of the law. But still much more must be done
    by steady training of the individual - in conscience and character...." .......T. Roosevelt

  2. #22

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    Essentially .. we are there. My CU pays me one tenth of a percent, if it were negative 1/10th then cash would be it. If we hike 3 to 4 times next year we will in time get our next recession, and it will be time to mop up again, although maybe it would be a softer landing, it's still a landing, a way to flush crummy investments and corporations, or encourage more mergers for strength in numbers, and to write off servicing of debt that holds people back from spending. But, this could keep us out of completely negative territory which could possibly damn the dollars existence as the world reserve currency. Still, as debt follow it's trajectory path, we will need negative interest rates eventually, and other countries are doing so, at that point it's a bet on if a currency will last, or go up in value. So, inherently it's just a race to see who must go to negative interest rates last.

  3. #23

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    Look at real inflation - we've had negative rates for nearly 10 years.
    'The less we know, the more they fabricate, the easier it is to sell souls.'

    'There is a new price on freedom, so buy into it while supplies last.'

  4. #24

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    With real rates of inflation well above the lie put out by the Federal Reserve, negative interest rates have been around since approx 2003.

    It's done a tremendous job of destroying the productive economy and promoting bankster cony capitalism.

    No longer does productive work and savings improve one's well being as parasite banksters and other con artists feed off those gains and transfer losses onto the backs of those productive folks.

    The losses come in the form of bailouts, taxation, regulatory capture, bail ins, market rigging, no prosecution of financial criminality, money printing, fake inflation statistics..etc. The west was built on the notion of free market capitalism where you owned the fruits of your labor and other people's gambling losses were theirs to bare. No more.

  5. #25
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    Negative money
    ------------------

    If the interest rates can be made negative, why the money cannot be made negative ?
    Eg: you pay your employer. The employer does not pay you.

    With so much "innovation" in the monetary policy, you might expect anything.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by oak333 View Post
    Negative money
    ------------------

    If the interest rates can be made negative, why the money cannot be made negative ?
    Eg: you pay your employer. The employer does not pay you.

    With so much "innovation" in the monetary policy, you might expect anything.
    In this day and age, that could be valid. It is so unimaginable for my sensibilities that I would pay my employer for the privilege, sense of achievement and fun that it may just be possible. And we (workers) pay our employers enough, it may work out that our employers may make enough revenue and margin that they don't have to produce and sell anything. Just think how much they'll save with no product support need. I think you're on to something here.
    Who are the righteous? ....Markpti

    What value did Burisma think to gain by hiring Hunter Biden as a Board member vs ALL other choices?

    Those who cannot articulate the other argument do not fully understand their own argument.

    "Much can be done by wise legislation and by resolute enforcement of the law. But still much more must be done
    by steady training of the individual - in conscience and character...." .......T. Roosevelt

  7. #27

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    You do pay your employer, in your blood sweat & tears, they own you when your working. We are already moving towards throwaway, no product support needed. Even in hospital/clinical settings they don't have quality control, they don't need it, no need to improve standards or quality either if you've got the monopoly.

    The negative interest rate will allow your employer (governments) to operate in the red, into perpetuity, thus keeping people employed, spending, and consumer based economy rolling.

    And, the money is slowly going negative, it buys less goods and services over time, minus product and service quality standards. That's why when you go to buy something and it costs more your not surprised, your used to it.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by everything1 View Post
    You do pay your employer, in your blood sweat & tears, they own you when your working. We are already moving towards throwaway, no product support needed. Even in hospital/clinical settings they don't have quality control, they don't need it, no need to improve standards or quality either if you've got the monopoly.

    The negative interest rate will allow your employer (governments) to operate in the red, into perpetuity, thus keeping people employed, spending, and consumer based economy rolling.

    And, the money is slowly going negative, it buys less goods and services over time, minus product and service quality standards. That's why when you go to buy something and it costs more your not surprised, your used to it.
    Negative interest rates will not happen across all developed countries at once ( not real but actual negative rates) . Money will just all flow to emerging markets paying positive rates, and after that hard assets and crypto and alternatives like self and cooperative banking. It will destroy our current system, which at least provided for some market efficiency and allocation ( albeit less and less)
    The only reason they have worked so far, if you call Japan and Europe worked, is that the US and other countries like Canada and Australia etc, have had positive rates.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by brutus2 View Post
    Negative interest rates will not happen across all developed countries at once ( not real but actual negative rates) . Money will just all flow to emerging markets paying positive rates, and after that hard assets and crypto and alternatives like self and cooperative banking. It will destroy our current system, which at least provided for some market efficiency and allocation ( albeit less and less)
    The only reason they have worked so far, if you call Japan and Europe worked, is that the US and other countries like Canada and Australia etc, have had positive rates.
    Negative savings rates are just 0.1% away in The Netherlands, once Deutsche Bank implodes it will be -0.5% and crypto will soar...maybe pm too!

  10. #30

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    Europe is doomed in its present state.
    Can you imagine Draghi - head of the ECB stating this today
    _______________________________________________

    The ECB president pointed to a number of risks and disappointing inflation as the reasons for requiring a highly accommodative monetary policy.

    “[The central bank] stands ready to adjust all instruments as appropriate to ensure inflation moves towards its aim,” Draghi said. “The risks remain tilted to the downside related to geopolitical factors, the rising threat of protectionism, and vulnerabilities in emerging markets.”
    __________________________________________________ __________

    The 12 month trailing inflation rate in the ECM is 1.86% and no month has been under 1.5%.
    The ECB deposit rate and the European Libor rate and a host of other European rates are negative. NEGATIVE
    That means that there is, and has been for some time, a negative 2% real rate of interest.
    And yet Draghi claims they need even more. What a fool.

    Or is he. He is saying to 95% of the Europeans, you will pay 2% more each year, than we will give you on your savings, and we are
    desperately trying to make your cost of living increase even more. Surely you all like your cost of living to increase, do you not?
    Meanwhile for those few fortunate enough to have access to these crazy rates, you can buy assets and we will pay you for doing so.
    This will continue to drive the assets higher and higher ( bonds, stocks, PM, RE, cryptos, paintings etc) until something makes these people/companies,
    want to sell in a concerted manner. Then the bubble will revert to its intrinsic value. (chaos)
    What a moron, and eventually North America, etc will join the party. Nothing will stop this unless, those that are orchestrating it are held equally accountable
    for its downside, as they have/are benefiting from its upside.

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