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Thread: Gold Silver Ratio Discussion Group

  1. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by windweaver77 View Post
    Would you advise trading junk, ASE'S and bullion for foreign junk like Canadian 80% to get more silvers?

    What about 40% and war nickels?

    Where is the line where more silver and recognizable delineate?
    I would not be interested in buying any foreign 'junk', war nickels or 40%, but that's just me. You'll realize why, when you go to sell, that dealers will only buy these items at a HUGH discount. The LCS are interested in silver they can move quickly across the counter. The items you mentions are shipped to the refiners at a hugh discount. I've been at this since the late 1970's and have always bought 90% to 999% in both Au and Ag, both foreign and domestic coin and bar. But I know and respect that others have different roads they travel in stacking...so what ever floats your boat.
    Stacking since the late 1970's

  2. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by windweaver77 View Post
    Would you advise trading junk, ASE'S and bullion for foreign junk like Canadian 80% to get more silvers?

    What about 40% and war nickels?

    Where is the line where more silver and recognizable delineate?
    I fully agree with Lawrence on this one Windweaver. I have been thinking this for a few years now as I watch you spend hard earned proceeds on all these foreign 50%, 80% and 90% coins and sets. I know you have different thoughts and really like the history and all the different obverse/reverse cool designs and as far as being a true collector at heart of fractional silver coins you are gathering quite the collection and vast knowledge. For this I commend you and your continued efforts, however, although you often get these at melt or very close to melt price. I fear that you will find if you go to sell in the future to anyone other than an avid collector such as yourself; that you will only get offers of around 50% to 60% of melt value. '

    Of course, if you hold until the price of silver is double what spot is today, it is a mute point and even at the lowball pricing you will receive you will still at least break even.

    It is too much work for me when I can get US 90% at prices much similar to what you are finding the foreign coins for.

    I just went to a local coin show last weekend and out of about 50 - 75 tables, there was one dealer that had a sign stating that he buys foreign coinage. When I asked him what he was paying for 80% Canadian, he answered 50% of melt. He was buying 90% US Coinage at $1 under melt.which would have been about 85%.

    It really comes down to what you enjoy as your hobby and how it shouldn't be a loss in the future if silver spot is over $50 per ozt.

    I do know this, that you are very much more knowledgeable about fractional sovereign silver coinage than most everyone on this forum. I enjoy your posts and videos especially when I learn new stuff like just recently learning about Philippine coins stamped as United States of America like on the Obverse of murphy-quezon coins which have a beautiful design that I was unaware of until your recent conquest of many of the Philippines under U.S. Sovereignty issues of (18981935) and the Commonwealth Issues of (19351945)
    Last edited by maxwellsilverhammer; 02-09-2023 at 04:13 PM.

  3. #213

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    Or if you need to sell, sell to a refiner for 99% of spot silver content.

    Don't try to sell to general market/local buyers and you won't lose out.

  4. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    Or if you need to sell, sell to a refiner for 99% of spot silver content.

    Don't try to sell to general market/local buyers and you won't lose out.
    hey there shades, will your refiner pay that much even for 35% war nickels, 40% Eisenhower's, 50% through 80% foreign coins, etc.? i am guessing you are talking about DAVID H. FELL & COMPANY?
    Last edited by maxwellsilverhammer; 02-09-2023 at 07:01 PM.

  5. #215

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    Yes, have sold to them before. If a large enough quantity, the assay route could save you even more. Contact them and ask. Last time I took generic in, they did an assay melt charge and gave spot for the actual content.

  6. #216

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    Only negative is you are melting down, loss of intrinsic value needs to be understood. But sometimes they will just calculate based on the known coin content, and you can also buy these from them as well, through their arizona(nevada?) Sister store

  7. #217
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    11,770

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    Quote Originally Posted by ynot2k View Post
    One source that I just looked at said 20 year average was ~60 to 1, meaning 1 oz AU for 60 oz Ag. Currently it is about 84 to 1 or somewhere around there. So it seems now is not an advantages time to trade.

    Regarding what is a good ratio? That is up to the needs of the person doing the trade but all else being equal it would seem prudent to WAIT until at least 60 to one comes around again and if possible maybe wait for under 50 to 1. If the pendulum was to swing all the way over it would go to ~35 to on (it is now about 25 over the average, so the opposite would be about 25 under).

    Good luck.

    PS many people do not trade physical... instead use ETFs or pool to buy, ratio trade, and accumulate hoping to at some point convert the "winnings" to physical.
    I found it really hard to find any takers willing to trade at 60/1.

    I did do a deal eventually at 80/1 with a private guy.

    Conversely, was impossible to trade when silver was at 110/1 where I offered 1oz. gold for 110 bars of silver. No private guys would partake, so I contacted a couple of dealers up here and they wanted me to sell them my gold outright, below spot, then turn around and buy silver off of them for a slight premium in that time period. They said it was against the law just to trade straight across. Besides that I had to pay shipping for both items. All said and done this would have dropped the ratio quite a bit and not in my favor.

    So people just setting a price is easy to say, but in reality harder to do a straight ratio swap. I don't remember reading about anyone here completing a full swap.
    ...be your own Health Care System... grow your own and eat well

  8. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by digbird View Post
    I found it really hard to find any takers willing to trade at 60/1.

    I did do a deal eventually at 80/1 with a private guy.

    Conversely, was impossible to trade when silver was at 110/1 where I offered 1oz. gold for 110 bars of silver. No private guys would partake, so I contacted a couple of dealers up here and they wanted me to sell them my gold outright, below spot, then turn around and buy silver off of them for a slight premium in that time period. They said it was against the law just to trade straight across. Besides that I had to pay shipping for both items. All said and done this would have dropped the ratio quite a bit and not in my favor.

    So people just setting a price is easy to say, but in reality harder to do a straight ratio swap. I don't remember reading about anyone here completing a full swap.
    Any dealer that would do a straight swap on Ag or Au will not be in business for long. Your LCS has overhead bills to pay, so, it makes sense that you would have to pay the vig on both sides of the swap. What's worse, here in the States, this is a taxable event if you made a profit on the sell side.
    Stacking since the late 1970's

  9. #219

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    I have never found anyone to do a straight out swap at the current ratio of the day.
    My metals trades from one type to another either from AG into AU or vice versa were in the form of Selling one type and buying the other. Either both transactions from the same dealer or to two different individuals.

    ie. Sell my silver at a slight negative cost to a dealer and taking the proceeds and buying gold from another source that had a better sale price to me. Otherwise walking into a dealer and selling my silver and then buying back gold and possibly doing a little negotiating with the dealer so the loss on one was less or the premium on the other was less. When you are doing this with good ratio numbers (90/1) and later down the road (50/1) the vat you pay really does not matter that much because you are in it for the long haul trading constantly adding more ozt's to your main stash.

  10. #220

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    When trading silver for gold or gold for silver you have to expect to get a bit of a haircut. Dealers have to make a living and that's the cost to swapping no matter which way you are doing it.

    During 2022 I did a bunch of silver for silver swapping getting out of 40% silver and cull 90% silver when premiums for any US junk was quite high. So much so that I was selling my junk for 3 times what I paid (on average) for it. I also cleared out all of my silver eagles and silver maple leaves for the same reason. I turned most of it into .999 generic silver rounds and bars and ended up with more ounces plus most of it was new and the rounds were in tubes and easy to store. Some went into pre-1933 gold too.
    American Legion Preamble: https://www.legion.org/preamble

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