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Thread: What happened in the 1979-80s. Hunt brothers stood for delivery. Good read.

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
    Nah, you reap what you sow. I think this may be the year... there will be lots of stuff on sale. Super cheap.

    Keep saving...
    blew alot on land...signed renter in for a 15 year lease, will give a 15% a year return, land paid for every 7 years roughly. Cant print ounces or acres, that being said, my cash reserves lower then i like, as i am not leveraged, will be better off then most, yet cash reserves are low...u pays ur money, you take ur chances. Land was highly undervalued, could sell tomorrow for triple what i paid, most land around here comes up once a generation...couldnt pass it up. Hope u are well my friend.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
    Nah, you reap what you sow. I think this may be the year... there will be lots of stuff on sale. Super cheap.

    Keep saving...
    What about the currency waiting in the winds from QE? Did the digital printing press shut down ?
    "Compulsory altruism is none too altruistic." - me

    "All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across." -- Julian Simon

  3. #13

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    It's sad that 35 years later we have folks saying the COMEX was right to completely change the rules in a way China would be proud of, but rarely seen seen in the US, and never before or after in the silver market. I lived through it and the link in the OP gave a pretty accurate account of what happened. The COMEX completely changed the rules, not only raising margins to levels not called for in their written "ground rules", but then raising them to 100%. then when that ddn't work limiting the position one trader could have, then when that didn't work making every trader who had even 1 contract a choice. Hold it or sell it. You can't buy anymore and nobody else can either...then when the Hunts and others were still taking delivery as per the rules with cash...the COMEX just up and closed the entire market. Sorry, markets closed. When the marketreopened silver as down 60% that one day alone(previous to this it had at least held the 16-18 range). 2 Texas boys managed to come this close to truly and legally cornering the small silver market..emptying the vaults and paid cash on the barrelhead most of the way. Brazen they were, but they were silverbugs of the highest order and they don't deserve demean 35 years later.
    .
    What about the tremendous hue and cry from these boards when margins were raised in 2011 as if it was manipulation. That margin raise then was well within the rules that take margin call for margin requirements to be adjusted as prices rise(duh), and as the price movement gets too volatile(duh).I understand some potato farmers in Idaho lost some money, and other traders caught up the notion of "throwing caution to the wind",but they apparantly didn't read the rules beforehand...rules which never changed throughout that rise and fall. The Hunt Brothers read the rules, they pre-planned and took physical delivery years in advance. They expanded as they found other investors towards the end with money enough to take delivery on all the silver in New York and London, and take the vaults as well. Until the free-market was perverted, changed, and manipulated by the insiders who were being squeezed as they were short.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by insidedealer View Post
    It's sad that 35 years later we have folks saying the COMEX was right to completely change the rules in a way China would be proud of, but rarely seen seen in the US, and never before or after in the silver market. I lived through it and the link in the OP gave a pretty accurate account of what happened. The COMEX completely changed the rules, not only raising margins to levels not called for in their written "ground rules", but then raising them to 100%. then when that ddn't work limiting the position one trader could have, then when that didn't work making every trader who had even 1 contract a choice. Hold it or sell it. You can't buy anymore and nobody else can either...then when the Hunts and others were still taking delivery as per the rules with cash...the COMEX just up and closed the entire market. Sorry, markets closed. When the marketreopened silver as down 60% that one day alone(previous to this it had at least held the 16-18 range). 2 Texas boys managed to come this close to truly and legally cornering the small silver market..emptying the vaults and paid cash on the barrelhead most of the way. Brazen they were, but they were silverbugs of the highest order and they don't deserve demean 35 years later.
    .
    What about the tremendous hue and cry from these boards when margins were raised in 2011 as if it was manipulation. That margin raise then was well within the rules that take margin call for margin requirements to be adjusted as prices rise(duh), and as the price movement gets too volatile(duh).I understand some potato farmers in Idaho lost some money, and other traders caught up the notion of "throwing caution to the wind",but they apparantly didn't read the rules beforehand...rules which never changed throughout that rise and fall. The Hunt Brothers read the rules, they pre-planned and took physical delivery years in advance. They expanded as they found other investors towards the end with money enough to take delivery on all the silver in New York and London, and take the vaults as well. Until the free-market was perverted, changed, and manipulated by the insiders who were being squeezed as they were short.
    It's the feds world... We just live in it.
    "Compulsory altruism is none too altruistic." - me

    "All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across." -- Julian Simon

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by windweaver77 View Post
    It's the feds world... We just live in it.
    If you choose to use their artificial money, yes, you do.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by insidedealer View Post
    It's sad that 35 years later we have folks saying the COMEX was right to completely change the rules in a way China would be proud of, but rarely seen seen in the US, and never before or after in the silver market. I lived through it and the link in the OP gave a pretty accurate account of what happened. The COMEX completely changed the rules, not only raising margins to levels not called for in their written "ground rules", but then raising them to 100%. then when that ddn't work limiting the position one trader could have, then when that didn't work making every trader who had even 1 contract a choice. Hold it or sell it. You can't buy anymore and nobody else can either...then when the Hunts and others were still taking delivery as per the rules with cash...the COMEX just up and closed the entire market. Sorry, markets closed. When the marketreopened silver as down 60% that one day alone(previous to this it had at least held the 16-18 range). 2 Texas boys managed to come this close to truly and legally cornering the small silver market..emptying the vaults and paid cash on the barrelhead most of the way. Brazen they were, but they were silverbugs of the highest order and they don't deserve demean 35 years later.
    .
    What about the tremendous hue and cry from these boards when margins were raised in 2011 as if it was manipulation. That margin raise then was well within the rules that take margin call for margin requirements to be adjusted as prices rise(duh), and as the price movement gets too volatile(duh).I understand some potato farmers in Idaho lost some money, and other traders caught up the notion of "throwing caution to the wind",but they apparantly didn't read the rules beforehand...rules which never changed throughout that rise and fall. The Hunt Brothers read the rules, they pre-planned and took physical delivery years in advance. They expanded as they found other investors towards the end with money enough to take delivery on all the silver in New York and London, and take the vaults as well. Until the free-market was perverted, changed, and manipulated by the insiders who were being squeezed as they were short.
    From what I have read you are spot on Insidedealer.. but I have a question about the margin hike in 2011. Did anyone know before Monday that Comex raised Margins 6pm that Friday April 29 2011....I sure didnt and several dealers I know didnt and we bought hard that Sat. We're crushed that Monday May 2nd..

  7. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by insidedealer View Post
    It's sad that 35 years later we have folks saying the COMEX was right to completely change the rules in a way China would be proud of, but rarely seen seen in the US, and never before or after in the silver market. I lived through it and the link in the OP gave a pretty accurate account of what happened. The COMEX completely changed the rules, not only raising margins to levels not called for in their written "ground rules", but then raising them to 100%. then when that ddn't work limiting the position one trader could have, then when that didn't work making every trader who had even 1 contract a choice. Hold it or sell it. You can't buy anymore and nobody else can either...then when the Hunts and others were still taking delivery as per the rules with cash...the COMEX just up and closed the entire market. Sorry, markets closed. When the marketreopened silver as down 60% that one day alone(previous to this it had at least held the 16-18 range). 2 Texas boys managed to come this close to truly and legally cornering the small silver market..emptying the vaults and paid cash on the barrelhead most of the way. Brazen they were, but they were silverbugs of the highest order and they don't deserve demean 35 years later.
    .
    What about the tremendous hue and cry from these boards when margins were raised in 2011 as if it was manipulation. That margin raise then was well within the rules that take margin call for margin requirements to be adjusted as prices rise(duh), and as the price movement gets too volatile(duh).I understand some potato farmers in Idaho lost some money, and other traders caught up the notion of "throwing caution to the wind",but they apparantly didn't read the rules beforehand...rules which never changed throughout that rise and fall. The Hunt Brothers read the rules, they pre-planned and took physical delivery years in advance. They expanded as they found other investors towards the end with money enough to take delivery on all the silver in New York and London, and take the vaults as well. Until the free-market was perverted, changed, and manipulated by the insiders who were being squeezed as they were short.
    This is a great post and exactly right. The Hunts were afraid of hyperinflation, with good reason. The COMEX hog tied them and beat them...changing the rules until they got on their knees. However, they should have never used margin.

    You mess with the bankers and wall street moneychangers and they will take you out. Literally or figuratively.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
    This is a great post and exactly right. The Hunts were afraid of hyperinflation, with good reason. The COMEX hog tied them and beat them...changing the rules until they got on their knees. However, they should have never used margin.

    You mess with the bankers and wall street moneychangers and they will take you out. Literally or figuratively.
    If you choose to use their artificial money, yes, they will.

  9. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
    This is a great post and exactly right. The Hunts were afraid of hyperinflation, with good reason. The COMEX hog tied them and beat them...changing the rules until they got on their knees. However, they should have never used margin.

    You mess with the bankers and wall street moneychangers and they will take you out. Literally or figuratively.
    But they did; they were buying the market with money they didn't have borrowing from the same commodity they were manipulating up. With all the people here that ***** about that i cant believe that almost everybody is glossing over that.

    Yes COMEX was 100% correct in stopping them. Do you think that silver would have been the end of that? Every person, and family, and entity with money on the planet, would had been looking for the next commodity to pump, and then the next, and then the next, so on so forth. Instead they got the message loud and clear that they would get burned.

    Again, i can't believe that here of ago places people are justifying the ultimate manipulation o of a market.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by mechanic4hire3 View Post
    From what I have read you are spot on Insidedealer.. but I have a question about the margin hike in 2011. Did anyone know before Monday that Comex raised Margins 6pm that Friday April 29 2011....I sure didnt and several dealers I know didnt and we bought hard that Sat. We're crushed that Monday May 2nd..
    All participants in that market the time should have taken the time to read the rules...which were never violated as they were in the days of the Hunt Brothers. But the actual announcment.....That's a very good question. I'm curious myself....I'd be surprised if they didn't announce the 4/29/2011 increase in advance by 24 hours, or at least by 0 hour if volatility and price increased. I wasn't around that particular weekend as it coincided with college graduation time for family, so I can't even say what was said here on these boards at the time.
    .
    .
    I'd say, looking back, that margin increase was no big deal that Friday, only 15% or so(on 4/29) in a market that had seen 20% and 30% increases in the previous 12 months along the silverbrick road...... as per the record available here.http://www.cmegroup.com/clearing/ris...to_present.pdf It became a scapegoat to blame quickly enough as I recall the next week.
    .
    I do remember posting myself at the time that next week and telling folks to expect more increases to fit the rising price/volatility existing. I said at the time that it was the rules of the road as available, and I gave out the link to the rules on the CME website. Some folks were busy planning yachting vacations with the profits and minor stuff like that got swept under the rug quick enough at the time...we can only look back with the addition of time/knowledge/soberness now.
    .
    And as per the enclosed record, margins even with the rise that Friday were 2-3%...as the price had risen quickly.
    .
    In deep retrospect, if there was a manipulation there to take down silver I think it would because margins weren't raised high enough beforehand, during, and after these times. The days of "throwing caution to the wind", the greatest thread in the history of these forums.

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