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Thread: Visiting the ANACS booth at a coin show ...

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakeside View Post
    I would only use NGC or PCGS NGC get a bad rap as it is on their gradings (usually from PCGS fans) I can't imagine anyone shopping on the bay or at a show looking at ANACS or IGC as a legit. service.
    I find that ANACS grades more strictly than NGC. And I am an experienced numismatist of 30+ years. So if I am at a coin show I'm generally going to ignore NGC coins since their grades are usually "maxed out". The recent yellow-label ANACS coins are very stringently graded, and are a much better deal than the typical NGC coin for similarly-graded and similarly-priced coins.

    I know somebody who had a rare ANACS coin labeled "holed and plugged". They broke it out and sent it to NGC and all they said was "cleaned" but otherwise ok. It was a good job, but the coin WAS holed and plugged.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakeside View Post
    I would only use NGC or PCGS NGC get a bad rap as it is on their gradings (usually from PCGS fans) I can't imagine anyone shopping on the bay or at a show looking at ANACS or IGC as a legit. service.
    The numis market, on the dealer side, is full of "snobs". They will, many times, place a value based upon packaging. Snobs generally never change their minds and anything that isn't on their "favorite" list will get trashed no matter what.

    I've been laughed at with MS70 coins, I've been schooled about the value of PCGS holders...I've even been chastised when I brought up ANACS...I've been lied to when I was told that PCGS doesn't make mistakes...4 separate incidents.

    Kinda pisses me off as this attitude is not healthy for the industry as a whole but it exists and needs to be dealt with if you want to play in "their" sandbox.

    As always, buy the coin, not the holder and before you invest in any slabbed coins, know what you are buying and the value of it. This will prevent mistakes and you can dodge the overzealous salesman aka dealer aka snob.

    GL
    Honor for US, Justice for Our Children! Now!

  3. #13

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    I think that once a person becomes very familiar with grading and knows the signs of what makes each grade they are very much "set in their ways"...

    Grading isn't perfect.. but an opinion...

    I don't even care about the grade that's put on the slab anymore... that's a guideline ... With the way China is pumping out the coins these days.. I'm just glad I'm getting a coin that's certified to be legit!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcarr View Post
    I find that ANACS grades more strictly than NGC. And I am an experienced numismatist of 30+ years. So if I am at a coin show I'm generally going to ignore NGC coins since their grades are usually "maxed out". The recent yellow-label ANACS coins are very stringently graded, and are a much better deal than the typical NGC coin for similarly-graded and similarly-priced coins.

    I know somebody who had a rare ANACS coin labeled "holed and plugged". They broke it out and sent it to NGC and all they said was "cleaned" but otherwise ok. It was a good job, but the coin WAS holed and plugged.
    What Anacs or ICG needs to do is steal away some top graders from NGC &/or PCGS if they want respect. They may be doing an excellent grading job, but no one listens unless they have some serious backing or legendary graders.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chump Change View Post
    The numis market, on the dealer side, is full of "snobs". They will, many times, place a value based upon packaging. Snobs generally never change their minds and anything that isn't on their "favorite" list will get trashed no matter what.

    I've been laughed at with MS70 coins, I've been schooled about the value of PCGS holders...I've even been chastised when I brought up ANACS...I've been lied to when I was told that PCGS doesn't make mistakes...4 separate incidents.

    Kinda pisses me off as this attitude is not healthy for the industry as a whole but it exists and needs to be dealt with if you want to play in "their" sandbox.

    As always, buy the coin, not the holder and before you invest in any slabbed coins, know what you are buying and the value of it. This will prevent mistakes and you can dodge the overzealous salesman aka dealer aka snob.

    GL
    Sounds like you're rubbing elbows with the wrong dealers . . .

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shylo View Post
    I think that once a person becomes very familiar with grading and knows the signs of what makes each grade they are very much "set in their ways"...

    Grading isn't perfect.. but an opinion...

    I don't even care about the grade that's put on the slab anymore... that's a guideline ... With the way China is pumping out the coins these days.. I'm just glad I'm getting a coin that's certified to be legit!
    It sounds as if what you are describing is that every coin, in every slab, through every dealers hands, gets louped...that's not the case. My MS70 was laughed at just after entering the guys hands and his loupe, if he had one, never came out of his pocket.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike n View Post
    Sounds like you're rubbing elbows with the wrong dealers . . .
    I have...a time or 4.

    They're not hard to find, just bring into a coin show, something different rather than a slabbed peace or morgan. Doesn't matter what holder it's in...(my MS70 Modern Commemorative was in a PCGS holder...showed it to an idiot who had a modern eagle I wanted. I never even made it to my trade pitch and the jerk laughed and stated how modern commemoratives are a joke...you know what I did, walked away).

    Share your different coin with some of the dealers and watch how they react...

    After the first two situations, I thought maybe it was me but no, others throughout the two shows did not display the same attitudes.

    The third and fourth incidents sealed the deal. I didn't want to come out with this info but it seemed relevant to the conversation and no, I don't judge all dealers to be this way but now, I do expect something unbusiness like to occur, every show.

    When I don't get that treatment, it's possibly time to buy something...I can stop at their table for a bit and shop, or to just chat if time permits.

    And, no, only one incident with the modern commemorative...each incident I referenced involved conversations regarding different coins.

    I might add, I don't do the coin show circuit...in fact, if I'm at more than one show, per year, that's a busy year.

    Eh, life, sometimes, just is...and snobs do exist
    Honor for US, Justice for Our Children! Now!

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chump Change View Post
    It sounds as if what you are describing is that every coin, in every slab, through every dealers hands, gets louped...that's not the case. My MS70 was laughed at just after entering the guys hands and his loupe, if he had one, never came out of his pocket.



    I have...a time or 4.

    They're not hard to find, just bring into a coin show, something different rather than a slabbed peace or morgan. Doesn't matter what holder it's in...(my MS70 Modern Commemorative was in a PCGS holder...showed it to an idiot who had a modern eagle I wanted. I never even made it to my trade pitch and the jerk laughed and stated how modern commemoratives are a joke...you know what I did, walked away).

    Share your different coin with some of the dealers and watch how they react...

    After the first two situations, I thought maybe it was me but no, others throughout the two shows did not display the same attitudes.

    The third and fourth incidents sealed the deal. I didn't want to come out with this info but it seemed relevant to the conversation and no, I don't judge all dealers to be this way but now, I do expect something unbusiness like to occur, every show.

    When I don't get that treatment, it's possibly time to buy something...I can stop at their table for a bit and shop, or to just chat if time permits.

    And, no, only one incident with the modern commemorative...each incident I referenced involved conversations regarding different coins.

    I might add, I don't do the coin show circuit...in fact, if I'm at more than one show, per year, that's a busy year.

    Eh, life, sometimes, just is...and snobs do exist

    Well, I don't know about the other coins you showed them, but most numi dealers I've seen don't consider anything Modern a numi and slabbing new coins is just a big joke to them. I understand why they feel this way, but I don't understand the incivility. I've seen behavior too.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakeside View Post
    What Anacs or ICG needs to do is steal away some top graders from NGC &/or PCGS if they want respect. They may be doing an excellent grading job, but no one listens unless they have some serious backing or legendary graders.
    ANACS has J.P. Martin and Michael Fahey, both are very well-known numismatists/authenticators/graders.

  9. #19

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    I wasn't aware that ANACS was recently putting out a tight product. Nothing I had seen from them during 1992-2011 impressed me all that much (post gold hologram holder era). That doesn't mean you still can't find some great coins in their holders. I recall bidding on a pair of ANACS MS62/63 capped bust halves at a winter FUN auction and having to pay MS63 money for them. I graded them MS64. And sure enough they came back from NGC as MS64's.

    All the better grading services have top notch and famous graders working for them. It still comes down to what the company's goal is and the end product they put out. Any one of them could be the "toughest" grader tomorrow if they chose to do so. It wouldn't necessarily make them the most profitable grading service. Collectors and dealers don't want to be told than their MS63 coins are really MS61 and MS62. They'd rather hear that they are MS64's. The TPG's consistently work on that fine "line." Some of the grading services really stretched that logic during 2004-2008. In the end, ANACS and NGC coins are valued on what they will bring if they were graded by PCGS. That's the game today. You own a great coin in an ANACS holder? Super. But, when it's time to sell and you want top dollar for that coin, it needs to be in a PCGS holder....otherwise it doesn't happen.

    If one only looks at the coin business from what they see at local shops, it will be quite a bit different than when reviewing things on a wide regional or national show level. 40+ years in the COiN game with 2 years as a full time dealer and another 8 years part time.
    Last edited by Numisgold; 02-17-2014 at 08:01 PM.

  10. #20

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    I'll buy NGC if the coin looks good (no cleaning) but prefer PCGS. I prefer circulated coinage over MS stuff which is almost all dipped at some point if it looks white. My barber quarter collection is all PCGS save one.. a 1913-S in an NGC holder. Looked through the safe deposit box to find I have 2 1897-S specimens which I didn't realize. One is pictured in my 'registry set' and another is much better looking but grades a bit lower. Nice chocolate grey toning.

    I'm not a big time player by any means... I collect what I enjoy though I have been 'out of the game' for several years with a rekindled interest. Got 5 more coins on the way not listed here, the main one targeted was the overlooked and undervalued 1899-S. I don't plan on completing this registry set, rather hoarding the semi-key undervalued dates instead.

    http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset.aspx?s=44570
    Last edited by dissident; 02-18-2014 at 10:30 AM.

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