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Thread: Favorite / Prettiest/ most significant silver coin, bar, or round around ???

  1. #81


    Quote Originally Posted by OvalNut View Post
    My very favorite single coin:

    2002 Kingdom of Bhutan 2000 Ngultrum. It is 1 oz .999 silver inset on one side with 1/4 oz .9999 gold. Stunning.

    that is certainly a lovely hunk of PM ... how much do these go for and where would we get one?

  2. #82


    Quote Originally Posted by windweaver77 View Post
    that is certainly a lovely hunk of PM ... how much do these go for and where would we get one?
    They are fairly uncommon, mintage of 9,999. I got lucky and stumbled on it really, picked it up for not much more than melt value at the time, I believe simply because no one else knew what it was. I'd pay spot plus 25%++ if I could ever find another one.

    In reality though the melt value valuation for a bimetal coin like this goes out the window when you consider how you'd have to carve it up and remelt/re-refine the gold potion just to extract the main metal value. I enjoy it as it is regularly.

    He drove a black and white pirate ship at 190 mph.
    - Dale in the #3 will never be forgotten. Thanks for the memories.

  3. #83


    Quote Originally Posted by OvalNut View Post
    They are fairly uncommon, mintage of 9,999. I got lucky and stumbled on it really, picked it up for not much more than melt value at the time, I believe simply because no one else knew what it was. I'd pay spot plus 25%++ if I could ever find another one.

    In reality though the melt value valuation for a bimetal coin like this goes out the window when you consider how you'd have to carve it up and remelt/re-refine the gold potion just to extract the main metal value. I enjoy it as it is regularly.

    Who would ever consider melting a work of art like that down? That's just beautiful.

  4. #84


    Thanks! I just tried some other pictures of it to see if I could capture more of what it is like in person. It really gleams. I gotta get a better camera.

    Last edited by OvalNut; 07-17-2013 at 09:41 PM.
    He drove a black and white pirate ship at 190 mph.
    - Dale in the #3 will never be forgotten. Thanks for the memories.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Oct 2011


    Quote Originally Posted by windweaver77 View Post

    how do we feel about these ? certainly not bullion but interesting none the less. I own four or five of these ( not in this condition mind you). Here is some info this from wikepedia..

    The three cent coin has an unusual history. It was proposed in 1851 both as a result of the decrease in postage rates from five cents to three and to answer the need for a small-denomination, easy-to-handle coin. The three cent silver featured a shield on a six sided star on the obverse and the Roman numeral III on the reverse. The coin was initially composed of 75% silver and 25% copper to ensure that the coin would be considered real currency yet not worth melting down for the silver. The coins were physically the lightest weight coins ever minted by the United States, weighing only 4/5 of a gram and with a diameter smaller than a modern dime and only slightly greater than the smallest gold dollars. The silver coins were known as "fishscales". The term "trimes" is often used today for these coins but that was first used by the director of the United States Mint (James Ross Snowden) at the time of their production.
    Starting in 1854, the three cent silver had its silver metal content raised to 90% in order to encourage circulation. At the same time, its weight was reduced to 3/4 of a gram by reducing thickness. The coin went through a design change at the time such that two lines were now used to border the star on the obverse and an olive sprig was added above and a bundle of arrows below the Roman numeral III on the reverse.[1] A final design change occurred in 1859 because of striking problems: the number of lines bordering the star was reduced to one, and the font was made taller and slightly more narrow.[1] The size of the date numerals also varied through the years, with 1860–1863 featuring the smallest date numerals of any US coin. In 1851 only, the New Orleans Mint struck some of the silver three-cent coins. It was minted from 1851 to 1873 at the Philadelphia Mint. In the later years there were very small mintages and the 1873 issue was in proof state only. However, an earlier date silver three cent piece can be bought in worn condition for a relatively low[vague] price. The silver three cent piece (along with the silver dollar, the half dime, and the two cent piece) was discontinued by the Coinage Act of 1873.
    Civil War era silver shortages led to widespread hoarding of all silver coins, and most one and five cent coins as well. Various alternatives were tried, including encapsulated postage and privately issued coinage. The Treasury eventually settled on issuing fractional currency. These small denomination (3 to 50 cent) notes were never popular, as they were easy to lose and unwieldy in large amounts. The answer to this issue was reached in 1865 with the introduction of the three cent nickel coin. This coin was composed of copper and nickel and was larger than the silver coin of the same denomination. The coin featured a Liberty head obverse and another Roman numeral 'III' reverse. The three cent nickel was never intended as a permanent issue, only as stopgap measure until the wartime hoarding ceased. However, production of the coin continued until 1889, 16 years after the three cent silver was discontinued. One reason often given for the discontinuation of the three cent nickel piece in 1889 is that this coin and the dime (10 cent silver coin) were identical in diameter, and hence caused confusion upon the introduction of mechanical vending machines.[dubious – discuss] Another factor may have been that in 1883 the letter postage rate dropped to 2 cents, thus removing the justification for this coin.[2]
    The three cent nickel was only minted in Philadelphia and, except for a larger date on the 1889 pieces, had no design differences throughout its run. Over the course of the series mintage declined, and some of the dates are scarce. But, with an 1865 mintage of over eleven million, a type piece can be inexpensively obtained.
    Mintage figures[edit]
    Three Cent (silver), 1851–1873
    1851 P – 5,447,400
    1851 O – 720,000
    1852 P – 18,663,500
    1853 P – 11,400,000
    1854 P – 671,000
    1855 P – 139,000
    1856 P – 1,458,000
    1857 P – 1,042,000
    1858 P – 1,603,700
    1859 P – 364,200
    1860 P – 286,000
    1861 P – 497,000
    1862 P – 343,000
    1863 P – 21,000
    1864 P – 12,000
    1865 P – 8,000
    1866 P – 22,000
    1867 P – 4,000
    1868 P – 3,500
    1869 P – 4,500
    1870 P – 3,000
    1871 P – 3,400
    1872 P – 1,000
    1873 P – 600 (ALL PROOF)
    Three Cent (nickel), 1865–1889
    1865 P – 11,382,000
    1866 P – 4,801,000
    1867 P – 3,915,000
    1868 P – 3,252,000
    1869 P – 1,604,000
    1870 P – 1,335,000
    1871 P – 604,000
    1872 P – 862,000
    1873 P – 1,173,000
    1874 P – 790,000
    1875 P – 228,000
    1876 P – 162,000
    1877 P – About 510 (ALL PROOF)
    1878 P – 2,350 (ALL PROOF)
    1879 P – 38,000
    1880 P – 21,000
    1881 P – 1,077,000
    1882 P – 22,200
    1883 P – 4,000
    1884 P – 1,700
    1885 P – 1,000
    1886 P – 4,290 (ALL PROOF)
    1887 P – 5,000
    1888 P – 36,500
    1889 P – 18,190
    great....good history, love em, own many of em, including 3 proofs, 2 different dates.....made me one day long ago realize why men had change purses back before and after the civil war....LOL



  6. #86


    Qing dynasty 7 mace and 2 candareens and other denominations. they are roughly the same in weight as U.S. money here is the list of rough equivalents.
    3.6 candareens = 5 cents
    7.2 candareens = 10 cents
    1 mace and 4.4 candareens = 20 cents
    3 mace and 6 candareens = 50 cents
    7 mace and 2 candareens = 1 dollar

    These coins were made from 1894 to 1908 and each Province in the latter Qing dynasty minted their own reeded / non cast coins. This was very new to the Chinese though and many varieties and errors were made. I own one of these coins from 1901 but doubt I will ever luck into another one. I also own one 7.2 candareens and several copper 10 and 20 "cash" coins from this era. Also from what I gather fakes abound... Finding definitive information on these coins is difficult because their collection is in it's infancy and examples are so scarce due to Communist Meltdown of these reminders of China's imperial past.
    Last edited by windweaver77; 07-21-2013 at 07:09 AM.

  7. #87


    todays featured coin since I acquired one yesterday well below melt The type 1 standing liberty quarter!!! and the type two as well . Oh to be alive in 1917 when that scandal broke !!!!

    this from Wikipedia : The Standing Liberty quarter was a 25-cent coin struck by the United States Mint from 1916 to 1930. It succeeded the Barber quarter, which had been minted since 1892. Featuring the goddess of Liberty on one side and an eagle in flight on the other, the coin was designed by sculptor Hermon Atkins MacNeil.
    In 1915, Director of the Mint Robert W. Woolley, set in motion efforts to replace the Barber dime, quarter, and half dollar, as he mistakenly believed that the law required new designs. MacNeil submitted a militaristic design that showed Liberty on guard against attacks. The Mint required modifications to the initial design, and MacNeil's revised version included dolphins to represent the oceans. In late 1916, Mint officials made major changes to the design without consulting MacNeil. The sculptor complained about the changes after receiving the new issue in January 1917. The Mint obtained special legislation to allow MacNeil to redesign the coin as he desired. One change made by the sculptor was the addition of a chain mail vest that covered Liberty's formerly bare breast.
    In circulation, the coin's date wore away quickly, and Mint engravers modified the design to address the issue in 1925. The Standing Liberty quarter was discontinued in 1931, a year in which no quarters were struck. By Congressional act the Washington quarter, featuring the first president's profile was introduced in 1932 to celebrate the bicentennial of his birth.

    On September 26, 1890, the United States Congress passed an act providing:
    The Director of the Mint shall have power, with the approval of the Secretary of the Treasury, to cause new designs ... to be prepared and adopted ... But no change in the design or die of any coin shall be made oftener than once in twenty-five years from and including the year of the first adoption of the design ... But the Director of the Mint shall nevertheless have power, with the approval of the Secretary of the Treasury, to engage temporarily the services of one or more artists, distinguished in their respective departments of art, who shall be paid for such service from the contingent appropriation for the mint at Philadelphia.[1]
    The Barber coinage had been introduced in 1892; dimes, quarter dollars, and half dollars with similar designs by Mint Chief Engraver Charles E. Barber.[2] The Barber coinage, after its release,[3] attracted considerable public dissatisfaction.[4] Beginning in 1905, successive presidential administrations had attempted to bring modern, beautiful designs to United States coins.[5] Following the redesign of the double eagle, eagle, half eagle and quarter eagle in 1907 and 1908, as well as the cent and nickel redesigns of 1909 and 1913 respectively, advocates of replacing the Barber coins began to push for the change when the coins' minimum term expired in 1916. As early as 1914, Victor David Brenner, designer of the Lincoln cent, submitted unsolicited designs for the silver coins. He was told in response that Secretary of the Treasury William G. McAdoo was completely occupied with other matters.[6]
    On January 2, 1915, an interview with Philadelphia Mint Superintendent Adam M. Joyce appeared in the Michigan Manufacturer and Financial Record:
    So far as I know ... there is no thought of issuing new coins of the 50-cent, 25-cent, and 10-cent values. If, however, a change is made we all hope that more serviceable and satisfactory coins are produced than the recent Saint-Gaudens double eagle and eagle and the Pratt half and quarter eagle. The buffalo nickel and the Lincoln penny are also faulty from a practical standpoint. All resulted from the desire by the government to mint coins to the satisfaction of artists and not practical coiners.[7]

    In January 1915, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury William P. Malburn sent McAdoo a memorandum about the silver subsidiary coinage, noting that "the present silver half dollar, quarter, and dime were changed in 1892, and a new design may, therefore, be adopted in 1916. This can be done any time in the year."[8] In reply, McAdoo wrote "[l]et the mint submit designs before we try anyone else." on the memorandum.[9]
    In April 1915, Robert W. Woolley took office as Mint Director. On April 14, he asked Superintendent Joyce to request Chief Engraver Barber, then in his 36th year in office, to prepare new designs. The same day, Malburn requested the opinion of the Treasury Department's Solicitor concerning the Mint view that it could strike new designs for the three denominations in 1916. On April 17, the Solicitor's Office responded that the Mint could change the designs.[10] At the time, the Mint was intensely busy producing the Panama-Pacific commemorative series, and immediate action was not taken.[9] In October, Barber was summoned to Washington to discuss coin designs with Woolley, though it is uncertain whether or not he had already prepared sketches for the new coinage.[10]
    On December 3, Woolley met with the Commission of Fine Arts. Woolley asked the Commission to view sketches produced by the Mint's engraving department. Barber was present to explain the coinage process to the Commission members. Woolley suggested to the members that if they did not like the Mint's work, they should select sculptors to submit designs for the new pieces. It was Woolley's intent to have distinct designs for the dime, quarter and half dollar—previously, the three pieces had been near-identical.[11] The director informed the Commission that as the existing coinage had been in use for 25 years, it would have to be changed—something which numismatic historian David Lange calls a "misinterpretation of the coinage laws".[12]
    The Commission disliked the sketches from the Mint (submitted by Barber)[13] and selected sculptors Adolph Weinman, Hermon MacNeil and Albin Polasek to submit proposals for the new coins. The sculptors could submit multiple sketches. Although the Mint could decide to use a design on a denomination not intended by its sculptor, the designs were not fully interchangeable—by statute, an eagle had to appear on the reverse of the quarter and half dollar, but could not appear on the dime. Woolley hoped that each sculptor would be successful with one piece.[14]
    Last edited by windweaver77; 07-19-2013 at 06:53 AM.

  8. #88


    Mint Director Robert W. Woolley (seen on his Mint medal, designed by Assistant Engraver George T. Morgan) advocated for the end of the Barber coinage, though he may not have understood he did not have to replace them.
    The three sculptors submitted design sketches in mid-February, and on February 23 met with Woolley in New York so the artists could make presentations of the work to him and answer his questions. After discussions between Woolley and McAdoo, Weinman was notified on February 28 that five of his sketches had been selected—for the dime and half dollar, and the reverse of the quarter. The same day, Woolley wrote to MacNeil to tell him he would sculpt the quarter's obverse, and to Polasek to inform him of his lack of success.[15] Members of the Commission persuaded Woolley that so much should not be entrusted to a single artist, and MacNeil was allowed to design both sides of the quarter, subject to the sculptor producing a design satisfactory to Woolley.[16]
    On March 3, the new coins were publicly announced, with the Treasury noting, "[d]esigns of these coins must be changed by law every 25 years and the present 25 year period ends with 1916."[17] The press release indicated that the Treasury hoped production of the new coins would begin in about two months, once the designs were finalized. The same day, Woolley wrote to Mint Engraver Barber, telling him that his sketches were rejected, and that models from Weinman and MacNeil would arrive at the Philadelphia Mint no later than May 1.[17] According to numismatic historian Walter Breen, Barber became "sullen and totally uncooperative".[18] Lange notes that "numerous delays were encountered as the artists fine-tuned their models while simultaneously avoiding obstacles thrown in their path by Barber. While his observations regarding many aspects of practical coinage were quite accurate, they clearly could have been presented in a more constructive manner."[19] In his book on Mercury dimes, Lange notes that Barber, by then aged 75, had been "compelled over the past ten years to participate in the systematic undoing of a lifetime's achievements"; he had to participate in the process which resulted in coins designed by others replacing ones designed by him.[20]
    With the new pieces, all American coins would have had a recent change of design (the Morgan dollar was not then being struck.)[21] According to a column in The Art World magazine later in 1916,
    Since that day [the 19th century] much artistic progress has taken place in our coinage. Sculptors of reputation have been employed with admirable results ...And now we are to have a new half dollar and a new dime by Weinman and a new quarter by McNeill [sic]. Altogether, in the retrospect, it seems an incredible achievement.[22]

    Doris Doscher, billed as "The Girl on the Quarter"
    The identity of the model for the obverse of the quarter is uncertain. As early as May 1917, the model for the depiction of Liberty was reported to be Doris Doscher, who would later become a silent film actress under the name Doris Doree. This was accepted for many years. Doscher became well known as "the girl on the quarter"; she died in 1970 at age 88. In 1972, however, a quarter-century after MacNeil's death, newspapers reported that the actual model was Broadway actress Irene MacDowell, then aged 92 (she died the following year) whose name was said to have been concealed because her husband (one of MacNeil's tennis partners) disapproved. In an article in the December 2003 edition of The Numismatist, Timothy B. Benford Jr. suggests that the supposed deception was to fool MacNeil's wife, who saw MacDowell as a potential romantic rival. In 1982, however, Doscher's widower stated that despite the MacDowell claim, his wife had posed for the quarter.[23][24]
    MacNeil submitted two designs for the obverse, the one which was successful and another, showing a standing Liberty facing right, which he would later resubmit in modified form in the Peace dollar design competition of 1921, again unsuccessfully. In the rejected design, MacNeil's Liberty leans forward, an olive branch extended in her left hand, but her right hand holding the hilt of a broadsword. According to Burdette, the design was intended to send a message to the belligerents in World War I that America wanted peace, but was ready to fight.[25]
    MacNeil's accepted obverse is only slightly less militaristic; his Liberty faces to the viewer's right (heraldic east) in the direction of the European war, and her shield faces in that direction as well. She holds an olive branch as she strides through a gate in a wall which is inscribed, "In God We Trust", with the "U" in "Trust" shaped as a V.[26] MacNeil stated that the obverse depicted Liberty "stepping forward in ... the defense of peace as her ultimate goal".[27] According to art historian Cornelius Vermeule, "Liberty is presented as the Athena of the Parthenon pediments, a powerful woman striding forward"[21] and states that, but for the Stars and Stripes on her shield, "everything else about this Amazon calls to mind Greek sculpture of the period between Pheidias to Praxiteles, 450 to 350 BC."[28]
    Vermeule suggested that the flying eagle on the reverse is simply that of the 1836 Gobrecht dollar, seen flying from left to right instead of the opposite way, as on the earlier piece. He applauded the 1917 change to the reverse, feeling that it made the reverse less cluttered. Vermeule noted that the reverse marked the beginning of the end (at least for that era) for naturalistic depictions of eagles on US coins, stating in 1970 that those after 1921 tended to present a heraldic appearance instead.[29]

    Hermon Atkins MacNeil
    For additional detail on the 1916 subsidiary silver coin redesign, see Mercury dime and Walking Liberty half dollar.
    In a letter to Woolley, MacNeil had promised to "try and produce something that shall be of use to you".[27] The sculptor had been awarded the reverse of the quarter only provisionally, and he prepared a series of studies for the reverse to show Woolley when he visited his studio in College Point, New York. At that time, Woolley selected a reverse similar to that eventually coined, showing an eagle in flight, wings extended and shown almost in full. Other designs which were shown to Woolley included similar eagle designs, but from different angles.[30]
    The Mint's original schedule called for the designers of the three new coins to complete their models by April 15, 1916. This would allow production of the new pieces to begin about July 1. However, the Mint quickly revised the submission deadline to May 1; this proved optimistic as MacNeil did not submit his models, in the form of bronze casts, until May 18. Even so, he was faster than Weinman, who did not ship the last of his casts to the Mint until June 6.[31] Woolley formally approved the designs for the quarter by letter dated May 23, 1916.[32] Despite the delays, the Mint attempted to meet the July 1 start date.[31]
    On June 21, Woolley wrote to Superintendent Joyce,
    The model of the obverse on the half dollar will have to be made over and Mr. Weinman informs me he is now at work on it. The same is true of the quarter dollar. The reverse of both the quarter dollar and the half dollar, as shown on the coins struck from the polished dies, are satisfactory ... Everyone to whom the coins have been shown here thinks they are beautiful.[33]
    No records of Woolley's objections to the quarter's obverse are known to exist, but numismatic author Roger Burdette suggests that his major concern was that when experimental pattern coins were struck in June, the obverse was indistinct, making even brand new coins appear worn. MacNeil was given permission to do further work on his design by Woolley in late June, and in mid-August turned in a revised obverse different in detail from the original. "In God We Trust" was displayed on the sash which Liberty holds, a complex chain motif surrounded the design, and two dolphins, emblematic of the Atlantic and the Pacific Oceans, lay at Liberty's feet. Liberty's shield bore an eagle, rather than the Stars and Stripes. Treasury Secretary McAdoo immediately approved the design changes, acting on August 19.[34]

    Mint Director Friedrich Johannes Hugo von Engelken. There were problems with the Standing Liberty quarter throughout his six-month tenure as Mint Director. Seen on his Mint medal designed by George T. Morgan.

  9. #89


    The Standing Liberty quarter was struck at the Philadelphia Mint from 1916 to 1930 with the exception only of 1922, when no quarters were struck at any mint. It was produced less regularly at Denver and San Francisco beginning in 1917. The mint mark "D" for Denver or "S" for San Francisco may be found at the base of the wall, just to the left of Liberty's visible foot. While the key date in the series is the 1916 with a mintage of 52,000 (it catalogs for $3,250 even in worn Good-4 condition), the 1921 and the 1923 struck at San Francisco (1923-S) are also expensive, with costs in the hundreds of dollars even for a circulated specimen.[52] The Standing Liberty quarter is the only 20th-century regular issue U.S. coin for which no proof coins were struck. However, a handful of specimen examples of the 1917 Type 1 issue (that is, the coins struck early in 1917 before MacNeil revised the design) exist.[53] Breen reported six known, all with exceptionally sharp central details.[54]

  10. #90


    It had long been a practice at the Mint to recut unused dies at the end of the year to show the following year's date. During the 18th and 19th centuries, die cutting was difficult and expensive. As making dies became cheaper and easier, the practice mostly died out around the turn of the 20th century. However, a 1917-S Type 2 die, unused by the San Francisco Mint, was recut and used to strike several thousand 1918-S quarters.[55] Few are known, and the coins command prices in the low thousands even in well-circulated conditions.[56]
    By late 1924, Mint officials realized there was a problem with the quarter in circulation. Quarters were returning to the Mint with the date completely worn off. Unwilling to seek another act of Congress, Mint officials made the step on which the date appears recessed into the design, rather than raised from it. This change solved the problem;[57] quarters from 1925 and after are more common and cheaper in lower grades as they have survived with their dates intact.[56] This action was among the last acts of the Engraver's Department under Morgan, who died on January 4, 1925 and was succeeded by John R. Sinnock.[57][58][59] The modification meant that the 1927-S, with a mintage of 396,000 is much cheaper in circulated grades than the 1923-S, with a mintage of 1,360,000, though the 1927-S is more expensive in uncirculated grades.[56]
    No quarters were struck in 1931; there was no call for them in commerce due to the Depression.[60] Since 1930, there had been an effort among those organizing the commemoration of the bicentennial of George Washington's 1732 birth to seek a Washington half dollar, to be struck as the regular issue for 1932. When a bill for a Washington commemorative was introduced to Congress in February 1931, it changed the quarter rather than the half dollar. While the reasons for the change were not recorded, the House Coinage Committee issued a memorandum stating that "the new design would replace the present type of quarter dollar", was on "a popular denomination" and "would replace an unsatisfactory design now being issued".[61] Congress passed the act on March 4, 1931,[61] and the new Washington quarter began to be struck in 1932, ending the Standing Liberty series.[62] Nevertheless, many Standing Liberty quarters remained in circulation until silver coins began to be hoarded by the public in 1964, prompting the change to base-metal pieces.[63

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