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Thread: Latest Score - gold

  1. #891

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    I get why AGE's and ASE's command higher premiums, I myself started out with them (though at a time when their premiums were not so much higher than other forms of gold).

    What I am questioning above, is why certain "In assay" bars are being sold at many dealers for prices FAR higher than others are -- bars of equally known name and quality, like the Valcambi Swiss selling for $100 less than Credit Suisse (especially considering Valcambi is a refinery for credit Suisse bars). Enough people really have bar name loyalty or they think a brands logo is so pretty?

    Also, if so many people would pay considerably more for an AGE than a generic bar, than why not buy back also for considerably more? Or given common makes of gold coins/bullion are more liquid (easier and faster to buy and sell), than should not the buy-sell spread be less, not more?? That's why gold buy-sell spreads are lower than platinum, and platinum lower than palladium - -because of liquidity, no?
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  2. #892

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    Quote Originally Posted by motocat View Post
    I get why AGE's and ASE's command higher premiums, I myself started out with them (though at a time when their premiums were not so much higher than other forms of gold).

    What I am questioning above, is why certain "In assay" bars are being sold at many dealers for prices FAR higher than others are -- bars of equally known name and quality, like the Valcambi Swiss selling for $100 less than Credit Suisse (especially considering Valcambi is a refinery for credit Suisse bars). Enough people really have bar name loyalty or they think a brands logo is so pretty?

    Also, if so many people would pay considerably more for an AGE than a generic bar, than why not buy back also for considerably more? Or given common makes of gold coins/bullion are more liquid (easier and faster to buy and sell), than should not the buy-sell spread be less, not more?? That's why gold buy-sell spreads are lower than platinum, and platinum lower than palladium - -because of liquidity, no?
    You know, it may be exactly what you just queried. It could be that people do have bar brand name loyalty or they just like the design better. I'm also wondering if there's some preference depending upon world location... That wouldn't seem to be such a factor I'd imagine, since Credit Suisse and Valcambi are both Swiss companies, but presumably Credit Suisse is better known (and trusted) and has been in business longer than Valcambi.

    After a quick search, it appears that Credit Suisse was formed in 1856, whereas Valcambi was formed in 1961 initially called Valori & Cambi, the name changed to Valcambi in 1967, and subsequently Credit Suisse bought 50% of the refinery that year, and then another 30% in 1968. The remaining 20% was bought by them in 1980, until in 2003, when European Gold Refineries SA bought Valcambi from Credit Suisse for $400 million. I guess the point being that Credit Suisse definitely has history and recognizability to it or else they wouldn't be able to get $100 more per ounce bar (of gold).

    Hmm. Well, many people do pay considerably more for AGE's than generic bars, but as for the buyback price I can't answer that question as I'm neither a coin dealer nor a bullion seller. Perhaps it's just the "Vig"- the premium that most dealers are able to charge and get away with, so if they can do it, why wouldn't they, right? I do know of a content creator on YouTube known as Silver Seeker that does incognito calls to various coin dealers around the country and those calls show without a doubt that in almost every case, every coin dealer pays differently for buyback prices, with some being extremely reasonable and others for whatever reason, paying significantly less.

    As for platinum, even though it's widely known among stackers that it's much rarer than either silver or gold, and until the last several years always had a fiat dollar value higher than gold, while it may be extremely undervalued at this time, it's still not thought of by the masses as a "money metal", like silver or gold. Hence, it's popularity has waned somewhat, although it remains to be seen how long that will last.

  3. #893

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    better known brands and coins are making resales more fluid. if under salingstress, one offers a possible buyer a n unknown brand or a well known brand, he certainly will buy rather the wellknown than the unknown. Premium is largely a function of "saleability".Bullion is bullion but some bullion are more bullion than others. ( to imitate an Animal farm maxim ).

    Golditiki+++

  4. #894

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    For me, part of being "fluid" is having small transaction cost. So no more Eagles for me.

    Instead, it has become bars from well known very active refiners (like Valcambi), and Krugerrands. For whatever reason, I can find Krugerrands for very low premiums, and also find places that buy them back at prices similar to other well known bullion. Maybe it helps that the Krugerrand is not very pretty (yet well known)?
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  5. #895

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    Quote Originally Posted by bronkster1967 View Post
    After a quick search, it appears that Credit Suisse was formed in 1856, whereas Valcambi was formed in 1961 initially called Valori & Cambi, the name changed to Valcambi in 1967, and subsequently Credit Suisse bought 50% of the refinery that year, and then another 30% in 1968. The remaining 20% was bought by them in 1980, until in 2003, when European Gold Refineries SA bought Valcambi from Credit Suisse for $400 million. I guess the point being that Credit Suisse definitely has history and recognizability to it or else they wouldn't be able to get $100 more per ounce bar (of gold). .
    Is Credit Suisse gonna be the next Lehman?

  6. #896

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    Selling to any dealer, or at least in the USA, when the dealer doesn't know you starts with the dealer testing what you are selling. If a dealer doesn't test it then he's going to get screwed. He knows that and you can expect him to test it no matter how honest you think you are. Once a dealer knows the stuff is real then the imprint on the PM is only used as a bargaining tool for the dealer. Government issued stuff may get a higher buy price in many cases because the dealer knows they can flip it for huge markups. But some dealers low ball nearly anything you are selling. It should not be a factor (for real stuff) if it is bullion rounds or bars, IMHO. The key thing I've found is mint condition bright and shiny vs. beat up and tarnished gets you a better price. Again the dealer wants to flip it. If he's got to ship it off to a smelter, he's not making any money.
    American Legion Preamble: https://www.legion.org/preamble

  7. #897

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    Quote Originally Posted by dukadan View Post
    Is Credit Suisse gonna be the next Lehman?
    That's probably a really good question...

  8. #898

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    Quote Originally Posted by motocat View Post
    What I am questioning above, is why certain "In assay" bars are being sold at many dealers for prices FAR higher than others are -- bars of equally known name and quality, like the Valcambi Swiss selling for $100 less than Credit Suisse (especially considering Valcambi is a refinery for credit Suisse bars). Enough people really have bar name loyalty or they think a brands logo is so pretty?
    Well, just speaking strictly for myself, I prefer the Valcambi bars over others, mainly for the lower cost, but also for the simple but attractive stampings (both sides) and card design.
    "It's the lure of easy money - It's got a very strong appeal." - Glenn Frey (The Smuggler's Blues)

    "A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned." - Thomas Jefferson

  9. #899

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    Bought 1oz gold eagle today gem BU twenty year, older coin. Expecting a price drop to 1300$ possible eventually but got the bug to buy and am happy with the purchase. My current storage needs for silver are more or less full.
    Last edited by and4rik; 10-18-2022 at 05:50 PM.

  10. #900

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    What were your premiums (over spot) on the gold eagles?
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

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