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Thread: Latest Score - gold

  1. #1001

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    Quote Originally Posted by golditiki2 View Post
    yeh, the old dates have big mintstrikes, but they were withdrawn when worn, so the mintingnumbers are not always a reliable indication of their " abundance " or " scarcity" The UK has been paying huge goldamounts to the US during the dirst WW and probably also during the second to finance the war. Wars first eat away savings, then when those are consumed starts the inflationary period due to the printing of monopoly money pretending to be real money.

    The big crash at the end of the twenties and beginning of the thirties was the retarded explosion of the first WW money printing, not because of the goldstandard ( that is a big lie ). The monopoly money first created a boom - ( loose money seeking goods and services, - people wanting to get rid of the depreciating money ) - causin overproduction and then PANG, suddenly the demand collapses, because the prices of the overproduced stuff is far too high and people do not need so much stuff anymore.

    This is a classical boom / bust cycle, I have witnessed several times in my branch such a phenomenon and by extrapolation this is what happening at the very moment globally.

    Golditiki2+++.
    You mean helicopter money was invented before the helicopter? Plus all those old printing presses going brrrrr was just like what's happening today? But I thought we were going to have a "soft landing"? <SEG>

    OBTW, I just picked up some King Chuck the Third Britannia one ounce coins. But no sovereigns.
    American Legion Preamble: https://www.legion.org/preamble

  2. #1002

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    Leonardo da Vinci had already a helicopteridea and " moneyprinting" existed in all times of history, the roman denarii silvercontent was lowered etc. Fiddling with moneyvalue has always existed. Politicians and wars have always been the ennemy of moneyvalue.

    The goldsovereign is a laudable exception, it has not been mongered, now for little over 200 years, which is worth mentioning. Its papermoneyvalue has been changing since WW 1 from 1$ to 370 $ in 100 years, gives us a hint about the moneymongering magnitude.

    I always wondered how commoners always have been willing to vote for those who destroyed the value of their earnings.

    Golditiki2+++

  3. #1003

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    i am considering getting a couple pre-33 $10 Indian Eagle gold coins listed as circulated/cleaned but the price is lower than anywhere else. price for buying 2 is $1076 or melt plus about a 13% premium. Would you pay that for cleaned Indian Eagles or are they basically ruined for collectibility being cleaned?

  4. #1004

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwellsilverhammer View Post
    i am considering getting a couple pre-33 $10 Indian Eagle gold coins listed as circulated/cleaned but the price is lower than anywhere else. price for buying 2 is $1076 or melt plus about a 13% premium. Would you pay that for cleaned Indian Eagles or are they basically ruined for collectibility being cleaned?
    Maxwell, I'd stay away from coins with damaged rims from previously being mounted as jewelry, but as far as I'm concerned, cleaning makes no difference on gold value. As you know that constitutional silver premium has gone nuts lately. I'll hazard a guess that this will also happen to gold coins too as things go to $hit as Bidenomics takes full hold. Plus, I'll guess that there's a lot more cleaned coins being sold as MS-60 (or better) than we think.
    American Legion Preamble: https://www.legion.org/preamble

  5. #1005
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    1,496

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    I wouldn't pay a 13% premium for gold, when I can get a buffalo for + 6% or especially sovereigns for + 3-4%. Although I may just buy an Indian eagle or a double eagle just to have one.

    Ag guy
    Last edited by Ag guy; 09-24-2023 at 01:23 PM.
    live for today, admit your faults, do the right thing (even if you don't want to) & trust God!
    This life is the training of the soul for the life to come. (accept that we live in a fallen world)
    Whether you know it or not, you are a spiritual eternal being! Ag guy

  6. #1006

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwellsilverhammer View Post
    i am considering getting a couple pre-33 $10 Indian Eagle gold coins listed as circulated/cleaned but the price is lower than anywhere else. price for buying 2 is $1076 or melt plus about a 13% premium. Would you pay that for cleaned Indian Eagles or are they basically ruined for collectibility being cleaned?
    Hi Max,

    Okay, here's a slightly different opinion coming from a guy who started as a collector first, and then became a stacker also (I still do both as I feel I get the best of both worlds, but I digress...).

    1st off, if you're just considering that circulated/cleaned $10 Indian as a chunk or lump of gold, with no numismatic value whatsoever, then that's fine and that's your prerogative. It can and probably will continue to rise in fiat value over time due to the devaluing of the US dollar and its purchasing power. However, if you're looking to possibly leave something that has both benefits of precious metal and collectability, then I'd caution you to stay away from cleaned coins unless they're very "rare". Circulated coins are another matter. Since there are different "levels" of collectors- ones with deep pockets, ones without, and everyone in between, there is always a demand for even circulated gold coins, depending of course on their desirability. Obviously, uncirculated high(er) grade coins, especially in gold since it's such a soft metal, will demand higher premiums, and rightfully so. It's harder to keep them in "perfect" condition without taking a serious conscious effort to do so. There are various ways to circumvent having to pay outrageous premiums for uncirculated gold, though. One of which is to buy them in the highest circulated grades, such as AU58 and even AU55. Those are the 2 grades that count as circulated coins but are actually more attractive than the lower grade uncirculated grades. It's sounds stupid, but it's true. And yes, their "values" will be slightly lower, but those coins will actually be an easier sell, when and if it comes time to pass them on and possibly sell. So that being said, circulated coins are okay (just don't go too circulated), but if you can, stay away from cleaned coins as they will ALWAYS be discounted when selling time comes around, and who wants that?

    The other thing I wanted to mention is that you probably had a typo in your post. You said that the price for buying 2 is $1076. I'm assuming you mean "for each one", otherwise there's something wrong- like those advertisements offering ASE's for $10 each or something. You know, the scammers and thieves making the fake stuff and hooking unsuspecting and unknowledgeable people. Anyway, assuming you meant $1076 for each one, since each $10 Indian currently melts for $931.12 (.4838 oz of pure gold) as I type this, that does seem pretty high for a premium for cleaned and possibly circulated US gold. Again, that's depending on the date. If it's a common date, which I suspect it would be, I believe you can do better. If it's rare, totally different matter altogether. I myself, would only buy higher end gold graded by PCGS or NGC- especially when there are so many fakes. It makes it easier for your heirs for one, and two, it eliminates the situation of "you say it's this grade/value, and the coin dealer or buyer says it's another". You also save in having to send it off yourself since someone else has already paid that exorbitant fee.

    And now, a short personal anecdote: A few months back I bought a 1913 $5 gold Indian from a friend of mine for about $460 or $470. Shortly after, I paid about $48 to have it graded and insured by NGC, expecting that it was a solid MS62 (wholesale price about $800), with a shot at an MS63 (wholesale price about $1500). Well, it came back an MS63 and I sold it to another buyer for $1300, thereupon netting me a little over $800 in profit which I then "invested" those proceeds into buying (2) NGC graded $2 1/2 gold Indians, which is a set I'm currently working on. So, the same amount of gold weight, but far different outcomes. I would not have sent the coin off to be graded if it had been cleaned, though, as I would most definitely have lost money and had a harder sell.

    Here's the thing... Pre-33 US gold is very popular- even more so than most any other countries gold coinage- at least in this country. Why would we expect any different, right? So, you'll always be able to sell even a cleaned $10 Indian. It's just that you'll gain far more in the long run by staying away from the cleaned stuff, and even the circulated stuff. I'd even go so far as to say to spend a little bit more and buy already graded MS-63 and 64 US gold from reputable sellers. The MS65 pre-1933 stuff gets crazy expensive though...

  7. #1007

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    Just have time to do bullion now, so with this dip to $1860, I'm starting to use my dry powder again (last shot was under $1800 early this year).

    This is what I found:

    Argo-Haraeus 1 gold bar for $1902. Even less if you buy more. That's about $40 over spot. I cant' remember the last time I spent +$50 over spot for gold bullion.

    I also bought some silver rounds for under $+$2.00 an oz. Silver premiums are back to normal.
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  8. #1008

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    As before, Im not getting even more Argo-Haraeus gold bars as the spot price falls, this time for $1855 with spot under $1820. These are swiss bars folks, seems to be the latest trying to break into the market with low premiums, before it was Valcambi, I'm just as happy with Argo-Haraeus, except harder to type. For me, the best "score" is what give the lowest buy-sell spread, and for whatever reason, it's bars now -- coins in comparison seem to be almost semi-numismatic, a guess state mints count on loyalty and trust in government to get people to buy their coins at higher premiums (I no longer have such trust or loyalty).

    I like coins because they are easier to store and handle, -- however when their premiums are some $20 or more higher, makes no sense -- using gold monetarily need not and should not come with high user cost.

    And to consider, our governments once minted gold coins for the public use, with zero "premiums".
    “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money.”Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

  9. #1009

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    Current CAD premium for gold is 37.5% over USD spot.
    That's before the LCS premium.

  10. #1010

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    Over $600 an ounce premium? What country is this?

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