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Thread: Fake Morgan Dollars are becoming epidemic!!!

  1. #101

    Exclamation Ring test

    I buy some Morgans and Peace, quite often.
    I use good scale and a digital caliper that has a step so I can
    measure both face and rim.[ gives a idea of wear]
    I ring test by spinning the coin on a table, and listen to tone as it settles flat.
    I am hard of hearing [ getting old ] is this a good method?

  2. #102


    It's interesting to me at least, that despite digital scales, calipers, gages, X-rays, electron bombardment, various acids, rare earth magnets, and I don't know what all (XMF??)...

    Let's drop it on a nice hardwood surface and hear the ring! While not definitive, it is definitely part of my routine. Basically, fakirs can get the appearance right, I get that. Or close. Maybe too close. But they can't get the size and weight right, together. OR, if they do - it will FAIL the ring test.

    Too cool.
    Last edited by 4AMJAVA; 12-14-2012 at 08:58 PM.

  3. #103


    For the life of me....why would anyone continue to buy silver items off of Ebay? All you ever hear about is how people get burned buying misrepresented, fake, inferior silver products and having to go through Paypal disputes, etc. With so many reputable online sellers out there....why take the chance?

  4. #104


    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Angel View Post
    For the life of me....why would anyone continue to buy silver items off of Ebay? All you ever hear about is how people get burned buying misrepresented, fake, inferior silver products and having to go through Paypal disputes, etc. With so many reputable online sellers out there....why take the chance?
    Because there are plenty of reputable sellers on the bay, including one of our advertisers on this site - Great Souhern Coins. These are folks I've done plenty of business with over the years (throough eBay).
    Last edited by BodieGhost; 12-15-2012 at 10:49 AM.

  5. #105


    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Angel View Post
    For the life of me....why would anyone continue to buy silver items off of Ebay? All you ever hear about is how people get burned buying misrepresented, fake, inferior silver products and having to go through Paypal disputes, etc. With so many reputable online sellers out there....why take the chance?
    Because, with the exception of two single silver dollars that were obviously fake when I examined them, I am confident in every single coin/bar purchased over the last four years. Simple as that. I've weighed and measured with calipers on most my stuff except what came in sealed tubes of SAE's. I sleep well at night

    I was buying from a local estate buyer who charged spot+5% and bought at spot -5% for, silver, generics, eagles, maples,....etc. Problem is he doesn't have much at all any more and was pleading with me to sell to him lately. Ain't doing that!

    So I called a few other places around my area and they're nuts! Generics +$2.50, Maples +$4, and SAE's spot +$5. And....7%sales tax on top of that!

    Online sources? Sheeeet, after the mark up and shipping I might as well let the local LCS's screw me!

    I bought a total of 6 SAE's off of ebay yesterday from three different sellers and I'll bet you they all legit. And if they're not, paypal disputes are no hassle at all dude. Very easy.

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default fakes and ebay and thanks to all.

    I won an ebay auction last week, my first for SILVER !!! My roll of silver rounds arrived Friday, with a 14 day return if I was not satisfied. The seller is only selling coins and bullion. He was very helpful using ebays messaging, and I trusted they were going to be real, but as one well versed forum member here expressed to me over many emails. Verify. Especially being new to all this I did.

    We have emailed back and forth, (the forum member and I) several times, and he has linked me to many reference sources for understanding bullion. He being a forum member, I feel lucky we live close enough. He has invited me to his home today. Actually he invited us, my boyfriend and I to visit he and his wife today for lunch and silver talk. I also want to thank all of the others here too. I have been reading a bit, and plan on much more researching the old threads.

    I am not sure if it is proper to mention his name, so I won't. So we are driving up to their home today, leaving in a few minutes. I am so excited to see he and his wife. He has offered to explain to me the variations in silver bullion, also he will show me many fakes, with some hands on, and if I am interested he would sell me some bullion at current prices. I am very excited. !!!

    I had met him at a coin show earlier this month and he was a valuable reference source there at the show. Giving me a crash course in bullion. All he said to me was factual and made it much easier for me to understand. I should have listened to him then, but my head was spinning with all he had explained to me and I was trying to process it all. I should have taken notes. I missed a good deal on 90% half dollars.

    So yesterday we took the 20, 1 ounce rounds to a coin shop here in Connecticut and they said they were for sure the real thing. We paid $709.38 for the tube of 20. The seller on ebay had over 7000 positive feedback's, and received another one from me yesterday. The prices at the shop were higher then my ebay purchase. Even the coin store here said i did receive a good deal. We then bought a 10 oz bar from the coin shop too, he ended up matching the ebay price, $350 cash for the 10 ounce bar, made by Apmex, very shiny and new.

    Thanks to all.


  7. #107


    Quote Originally Posted by silverdebbie View Post

    I am not sure if it is proper to mention his name,

    Does it rhyme with SnaptonSchmivalton?

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Nov 2012


    Quote Originally Posted by sorionc View Post
    Does it rhyme with SnaptonSchmivalton?
    Yes Indeed. Now proudly also. After arriving here and getting through the formalities of meeting a few other people, after rushing, and getting a little lost, and being a bit nervous, yes.

    We are in his and his more than lovely wife's home. OMG, more like a museum. A museum at Christmas time! In my 42 years on earth, I do not ever remember seeing such a lovely home or property here in this part of Connecticut. For that matter a more beautiful family. This is a special day.

    Someone wants to say hello to all, so through me, a hello all, from Captainsilverton and his family.


  9. #109


    Quote Originally Posted by kissfan79 View Post
    Hey guys...
    I have a couple questions. First off....I've only got 3 Morgans but after reading all of this I decided to pull them out and have a look-see. After looking at them, weighing them, etc....I do have some interesting results. What is the acceptable range for weights on a true Morgan? I know it is supposed to be 26.73 grams but with some wear (some wear....not a slick mind you ) what would be an acceptable weight? The three Morgans I have weighed in at 27.48, 27.73, and 27.75. The first 2 I weighed look the same but the third one that weighed 27.75 does have a slightly different look to in terms of the color of the silver. It almost looks like it's darker in color and oddly a bit more shiny. I was actually concerned by the one with the low weight but after looking at all three, I'm wondering if the third one may be fake with the slightly off color. Another thing to note is that (unless it is my imagination) I swear that the third one has an ever so slightly thicker edge on it. If I put all three side by side, I can feel it barely with my finger. Also....I am aware of the ring test but what does a true Morgan sound like, in general, compared to a fake? Is the ping of the real one deeper sounding or more higher pitched?
    I am heading to my LCS to pick up a couple of things tomorrow and I'm going to take them to see what they say about them. If I can get some decent pics....I'll post them up so ya'll can see what I mean about the different color on the one Morgan.

    Thanks, Jim
    19 "new" morgans=20 slicks. I tested hundreds in 1981. STUPIDME

  10. #110


    The United States Secret Service star logo. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

    eBay was contacted by the U.S. Secret Service sometime last month to remove the Liberty Dollar precious metal coins. Citing consistency with eBay’s general policy of not listing counterfeit items, eBay spokesperson Ryan Moore confirmed the ban with Coin World. The following email was sent to affected sellers when the systematic removals began:

    The United States Secret Service has requested the removal of all Norfed Liberty dollars on the eBay site as counterfeits. … Please do not relist this item(s). We appreciate that you chose to list this coin on our site and understand there was no ill intent on your part. Your listing fees have been credited to your account.

    Real is fake and fake is real. That’s pretty much the monetary world that we live in now as we are coerced to trade and pay taxes in the designated and one ‘legitimate’ State currency. Certainly, the U.S. Secret Service wouldn’t want anyone purchasing pure (.999 fine) gold and silver medallions mistakenly thinking that they might be getting official and real money issued under the authority of the United States.

    Gold Can Save Us From Disaster
    Steve Forbes
    Forbes Staff

    Bitcoin Prevents Monetary Tyranny
    Jon Matonis

    To Achieve A Successful Gold Standard, You Don't Need Gold Coins
    Nathan Lewis

    Bitcoin's Greatness Not Realized By Succumbing To Regulation
    Jon Matonis
    Deriving its authority from Title 18 of the United States Code, Section 3056, the United States Secret Service is one of the nation’s oldest federal investigative law enforcement agencies and it was originally founded in 1865 as a branch of the U.S. Treasury Department to combat the counterfeiting of U.S. currency. In addition to its mandate of protecting the president, vice president, and others, the U.S. Secret Service is responsible for maintaining the integrity of the nation’s financial infrastructure and payment systems:

    The Secret Service has jurisdiction over violations involving the counterfeiting of United States obligations and securities. Some of the counterfeited United States obligations and securities commonly investigated by the Secret Service include U.S. currency (to include coins), U.S. Treasury checks, Department of Agriculture food coupons and U.S. postage stamps.

    Rather than the beginning of a second wave of gold confiscation, this action to remove coins at eBay and other sites is aimed directly at NORFED Liberty Dollars issued from the now defunct mint of monetary architect Bernard von Nothaus who was convicting of counterfeiting in 2011. For those that haven’t followed every twist and turn of this landmark case, I would recommend the amicus curiae brief filed by GATA, the brilliant piece from Lew Rockwell, and the possible implications of the von Nothaus case on other attempts to start a new currency.

    The State’s nervousness with alternative money creation extends far beyond the lookalikes and the replicas. It goes to the heart of creating a new monetary system evidenced by the targeted shut down of systems that achieve significant market adoption or present an embarrassing dilemma. At issue in the von Nothaus motion to set aside his conviction is the larger constitutional question of whether the government has the power to outlaw the private coinage of money.

    Presiding over one of the most egregious assaults on monetary freedom in history, District Court Judge Voorhees still has not set a date for the von Nothaus sentencing. In announcing the verdict, U.S. Attorney Anne M. Tompkins declared:

    Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism. While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country. We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government.

    “It’s a loser’s game to suppress private money that is sound in order to protect government-issued money that is unsound,” writes Seth Lipsky in the Wall Street Journal.

    For budding monetary entrepreneurs that may be seeking legitimacy to avoid von Nothaus’ fate, Robert Murphy of the Mises Institute points out the folly of searching for legal loopholes because “if any attempts to circumvent the dollar actually got off the ground, then the government would find some legal pretext to shut it down.” If a competing system posed a genuine threat to its monopoly on money, the government would find a way to prosecute it, “meaning no entrepreneur would spend the resources and time trying to launch an alternative system.”

    Decentralized and digital currencies without a single point of failure are starting to show some resiliency to arbitrary and capricious shutdowns.

    Political freedom can only be preceded by economic freedom which is preceded by monetary freedom. And, critical elements of monetary freedom are currency competition and the right of private coinage. We need more entrepreneurs that rely on the free market, not the law, as their weapon of legitimacy.

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