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Thread: Latest score

  1. #9061

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    Wouldn't ya know it, the second I score silver under melt... melt drops to meet it, haha?
    "Compulsory altruism is none too altruistic." - me

    "All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across." -- Julian Simon

  2. #9062

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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowsnow View Post
    sometime i don't understand how grader grade a coin. It seem they place more weighting on the obverse than the reverse or the lowest grade of either sides. Ex. this 1806 half dollar, my inexperience eyes see the reverse as EF45-AU50 and the obverse EF40-EF45
    I do get your frustration. It gets frustrating to me too sometimes, but any professional coin dealer will tell you that "coin grading is subjective" and each individual looks at things in a slightly different manner. There are generally accepted professional standards for coin grading based upon levels of wear on the devices and the fields and/or contact marks on the coins surface and rim, but when you have more than one set of eyes, you'll often get more than one opinion. It is much the same in the practices of medicine or law. Ask 100 doctors about a medical condition and you could get 100 different opinions. Ask 100 lawyers about a case and you could get the same. It's worth noting that coin grading standards since the inception of the 3rd party grading services, the top 3 mind you (PCGS, NGC, ANACS), have actually loosened up quite a bit. That's why a lot of collectors and dealers especially look for the "old, green rattlers" (PCGS)- because they were known to be stricter then.

    Of course, there have also been several fly-by-night grading services that weren't worth their salt who both purposely and/or unintentionally over graded coins submitted to them because of greed and the chase for profits. Thankfully, most of them didn't last, but from time to time you may find coins in collections still in these not-to-be-trusted slabs. As they say in the industry, "Buy the coin and not the slab." as that is your best protection no matter who graded it. Oftentimes, buying coins in slabs graded from untrustworthy companies caused unknowing/ignorant collectors to suffer great financial hardships. Here's another thing- even the well-known and respected 3rd party grading services have had their slabs counterfeited, which is certainly disconcerting to say the least. As with anything, the only person you can really depend on is yourself, and that's by gaining, over time, the knowledge it takes to conservatively grade coins. DYODD, right? Make sure to check the numbers on any encased coin. This due diligence includes also knowing when a coin has been cleaned or is a "problem coin" which severely lowers its "value". Grades for coins are supposed to be based upon sheer numbers- literally having looked at thousands and thousands of a particular coin type and being able to ascertain where it falls on the Sheldon scale (0-70), whether business strike or proof- it doesn't matter.

    It appears that I mistakenly thought the above coin was an 1806 silver dollar (which doesn't exist) and hadn't initially realized it was a half dollar. That's what I get for looking too quickly at the photo, not checking for scale and assuming without checking. I apologize for my mis-categorization. Anyway, I think that you're right about graders giving a little more weight to the obverse of a coin as it's considered the "main side", the side that gets seen the most or whatever. Oftentimes, the reverse of a coin is in better condition, with less wear and/or contact marks than the obverse, but they still make their assessments mostly based on the obverse. I believe that some graders will give an average grade of both sides when this happens, but not all. I also believe that many people want to believe that a coin they own, or anything for that matter, is actually in better condition than it may really be. Early on, I used to do this too. It is only until they listen to and believe someone more knowledgeable than them whom they trust that tells them otherwise, or they gain more knowledge, that they might reconsider their original assessment. Just FYI, in case you weren't aware, PCGS has a "photograde online" which should help a bit since they're still generally the market leader and their graded coins usually command the best prices. They still don't compare to the old days.

    One last thing though. Even though I personally have not submitted coins for grading in about 2-3 years, and most of the time don't anyway, I have heard that all of the grading services have been all over the place. And according to many coin dealers I've spoken with, this is because of Covid-19. So many people were "locked down" and former collectors began collecting again because they needed something to occupy their time and so many new collectors joined in the fray that these companies were overwhelmed. And since Covid had decimated much of their staff and there were also some deaths and retirements, they needed to hire a lot more people who just didn't have the experience that the older graders had. It's just something to take into account.

  3. #9063

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bronkster1967 View Post
    I do get your frustration. It gets frustrating to me too sometimes, but any professional coin dealer will tell you that "coin grading is subjective" and each individual looks at things in a slightly different manner. There are generally accepted professional standards for coin grading based upon levels of wear on the devices and the fields and/or contact marks on the coins surface and rim, but when you have more than one set of eyes, you'll often get more than one opinion. It is much the same in the practices of medicine or law. Ask 100 doctors about a medical condition and you could get 100 different opinions. Ask 100 lawyers about a case and you could get the same. It's worth noting that coin grading standards since the inception of the 3rd party grading services, the top 3 mind you (PCGS, NGC, ANACS), have actually loosened up quite a bit. That's why a lot of collectors and dealers especially look for the "old, green rattlers" (PCGS)- because they were known to be stricter then.

    Of course, there have also been several fly-by-night grading services that weren't worth their salt who both purposely and/or unintentionally over graded coins submitted to them because of greed and the chase for profits. Thankfully, most of them didn't last, but from time to time you may find coins in collections still in these not-to-be-trusted slabs. As they say in the industry, "Buy the coin and not the slab." as that is your best protection no matter who graded it. Oftentimes, buying coins in slabs graded from untrustworthy companies caused unknowing/ignorant collectors to suffer great financial hardships. Here's another thing- even the well-known and respected 3rd party grading services have had their slabs counterfeited, which is certainly disconcerting to say the least. As with anything, the only person you can really depend on is yourself, and that's by gaining, over time, the knowledge it takes to conservatively grade coins. DYODD, right? Make sure to check the numbers on any encased coin. This due diligence includes also knowing when a coin has been cleaned or is a "problem coin" which severely lowers its "value". Grades for coins are supposed to be based upon sheer numbers- literally having looked at thousands and thousands of a particular coin type and being able to ascertain where it falls on the Sheldon scale (0-70), whether business strike or proof- it doesn't matter.

    It appears that I mistakenly thought the above coin was an 1806 silver dollar (which doesn't exist) and hadn't initially realized it was a half dollar. That's what I get for looking too quickly at the photo, not checking for scale and assuming without checking. I apologize for my mis-categorization. Anyway, I think that you're right about graders giving a little more weight to the obverse of a coin as it's considered the "main side", the side that gets seen the most or whatever. Oftentimes, the reverse of a coin is in better condition, with less wear and/or contact marks than the obverse, but they still make their assessments mostly based on the obverse. I believe that some graders will give an average grade of both sides when this happens, but not all. I also believe that many people want to believe that a coin they own, or anything for that matter, is actually in better condition than it may really be. Early on, I used to do this too. It is only until they listen to and believe someone more knowledgeable than them whom they trust that tells them otherwise, or they gain more knowledge, that they might reconsider their original assessment. Just FYI, in case you weren't aware, PCGS has a "photograde online" which should help a bit since they're still generally the market leader and their graded coins usually command the best prices. They still don't compare to the old days.

    One last thing though. Even though I personally have not submitted coins for grading in about 2-3 years, and most of the time don't anyway, I have heard that all of the grading services have been all over the place. And according to many coin dealers I've spoken with, this is because of Covid-19. So many people were "locked down" and former collectors began collecting again because they needed something to occupy their time and so many new collectors joined in the fray that these companies were overwhelmed. And since Covid had decimated much of their staff and there were also some deaths and retirements, they needed to hire a lot more people who just didn't have the experience that the older graders had. It's just something to take into account.
    Is this why it is so hard for me to snipe like I used to?
    "Compulsory altruism is none too altruistic." - me

    "All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across." -- Julian Simon

  4. #9064

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yellowsnow View Post
    sometime i don't understand how grader grade a coin. It seem they place more weighting on the obverse than the reverse or the lowest grade of either sides. Ex. this 1806 half dollar, my inexperience eyes see the reverse as EF45-AU50 and the obverse EF40-EF45
    Quote Originally Posted by windweaver77 View Post
    Is this why it is so hard for me to snipe like I used to?
    Actually I do think that that's part of it. Based on my own personal experience, I also believe that many people (not just stackers and coin collectors) have become cognizant of the already-here-and-soon-to-get much-worse declining "value" of the U.S. dollar and they are furiously looking for places to park their cash that will hold its value or even appreciate. What a novel concept! I think we're just scratching the surface here. These regular people have actually been paying attention to the fact that even though the U.S. IS still currently the world's reserve currency, that it may not be that way for much longer- not if Russia and China get their way. If we think things are bad now, well, if that happens, you ain't seen nuttin' yet! They're feeling the effects of inflation in their wallets and are hearing every day just how much "money" is being printed out of thin air. Every trip to the supermarket, the gas station, the department store or a lumber yard. Every time they have to fill up with home heating oil.

    They know something wicked this way comes and are doing their damnedest to find ways to mitigate it. So, what's happening is that stackers and collectors are doing what they do best. We're continuing to stack and to collect, but people new to "the game" have been joining the fray and in many cases are buying whatever forms of gold, silver and other precious metals they can find- some of which are foreign coins- where much of your interest lies. That, and maybe some people who before wouldn't have thought twice about selling coins, have reconsidered and are holding on to what they've already got, so there are actually fewer chances to make that snipe successful. All of us here know that precious metals are real money, real wealth and most in the general public probably don't have many PM's, except maybe for some jewelry or a few of Grandpa's coins that got handed down or inherited. The percentage is pretty low by most estimates, anyway.

    The thing is, " The times, they are a changin' " and the ignorant public (I'm not using that term in the negative way) is getting hip to what's going on and besides those who are dipping their toes into crypto or holding dividend stocks, the fear, for lack of a better word has taken hold and moving them to action. This action is spilling over into various forms and almost all things collectible, whether they be coins, comic books, vintage record albums, antiques, firearms, etc., etc. have been getting a lot of attention and hence, prices have risen. Now, fear can be based on irrationality OR it can be based upon using all of your senses in a reasonable manner. Speaking as a guy who worked in and retired from law enforcement, I know that fear, if managed correctly, can help you survive very tough times. I go to a lot of in person antique auctions and have personally witnessed many lots get bid up to over their actual historical recorded values and on top of that, there's anywhere from a 10 to 25% buyer's premium as well as tax added to that, so prices are very high. I hear it's currently the same in the real estate market, with some buyers offering thousands of dollars over asking price and car dealerships are jamming people too, which is no big surprise there. Yeah, I know- computer chip shortages. BS!

    I am but one man, but that's the way I see it and that's the way I'm calling it.

  5. #9065

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bronkster1967 View Post
    Actually I do think that that's part of it. Based on my own personal experience, I also believe that many people (not just stackers and coin collectors) have become cognizant of the already-here-and-soon-to-get much-worse declining "value" of the U.S. dollar and they are furiously looking for places to park their cash that will hold its value or even appreciate. What a novel concept! I think we're just scratching the surface here. These regular people have actually been paying attention to the fact that even though the U.S. IS still currently the world's reserve currency, that it may not be that way for much longer- not if Russia and China get their way. If we think things are bad now, well, if that happens, you ain't seen nuttin' yet! They're feeling the effects of inflation in their wallets and are hearing every day just how much "money" is being printed out of thin air. Every trip to the supermarket, the gas station, the department store or a lumber yard. Every time they have to fill up with home heating oil.

    They know something wicked this way comes and are doing their damnedest to find ways to mitigate it. So, what's happening is that stackers and collectors are doing what they do best. We're continuing to stack and to collect, but people new to "the game" have been joining the fray and in many cases are buying whatever forms of gold, silver and other precious metals they can find- some of which are foreign coins- where much of your interest lies. That, and maybe some people who before wouldn't have thought twice about selling coins, have reconsidered and are holding on to what they've already got, so there are actually fewer chances to make that snipe successful. All of us here know that precious metals are real money, real wealth and most in the general public probably don't have many PM's, except maybe for some jewelry or a few of Grandpa's coins that got handed down or inherited. The percentage is pretty low by most estimates, anyway.

    The thing is, " The times, they are a changin' " and the ignorant public (I'm not using that term in the negative way) is getting hip to what's going on and besides those who are dipping their toes into crypto or holding dividend stocks, the fear, for lack of a better word has taken hold and moving them to action. This action is spilling over into various forms and almost all things collectible, whether they be coins, comic books, vintage record albums, antiques, firearms, etc., etc. have been getting a lot of attention and hence, prices have risen. Now, fear can be based on irrationality OR it can be based upon using all of your senses in a reasonable manner. Speaking as a guy who worked in and retired from law enforcement, I know that fear, if managed correctly, can help you survive very tough times. I go to a lot of in person antique auctions and have personally witnessed many lots get bid up to over their actual historical recorded values and on top of that, there's anywhere from a 10 to 25% buyer's premium as well as tax added to that, so prices are very high. I hear it's currently the same in the real estate market, with some buyers offering thousands of dollars over asking price and car dealerships are jamming people too, which is no big surprise there. Yeah, I know- computer chip shortages. BS!

    I am but one man, but that's the way I see it and that's the way I'm calling it.
    Good thing many of us have been acquiring for years doing the old DCA... and buying them dips.
    "Compulsory altruism is none too altruistic." - me

    "All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across." -- Julian Simon

  6. #9066

    Default

    Windy, you're absolutely right, my friend. And just think how many times it may have seemed like we were swimming against the tide. How many times we had the fortitude to go against the grain to keep doing what we were/are doing. When "prices" dropped, and it looked like the bottom fell out and all of the paper pushing naysayers constantly crowed " Told you so!". Probably the truest definition of contrary "investing". I don't know if it can be described as faith, but definitely the belief that this accumulation of precious metals, and the subsequent knowledge that we sleep much better at night because we've done so and continue to do so, all the while knowing that PM's are the only true money. Well, even though I may be old school in a newfangled, digital world, it doesn't mean that I don't stay up to date on most things and use them to my benefit, but my strongest conviction definitely lies in the value of hard, tangible assets.

  7. #9067

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    It only takes being correct once before all the crap we've taken over investing in PM to justify going against the crowd. The only thing I've got to say is I hope we don't see that happening any time soon, since I also think the world will be in a bad place at that time. Insurance is best never to be needed. The difference with PM is that you aren't left with nothing if you decide to cancel your "insurance" policy.
    Do your own due diligence

    I stand united with my friends & family in Canada who seek freedom.

  8. #9068

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    I took advantage of the latest sell off to pick up a 100 oz bar that will soon be float tested in the local swamp. The same place I've lost a lot of other PM. Maybe one day I'll learn that PM doesn't float.
    Do your own due diligence

    I stand united with my friends & family in Canada who seek freedom.

  9. #9069

    Default

    https://youtu.be/5oXxPgRpoUs


    Shiny arrivals, kitco kitty, and big personal news.
    "Compulsory altruism is none too altruistic." - me

    "All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across." -- Julian Simon

  10. #9070

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    Quote Originally Posted by windweaver77 View Post
    https://youtu.be/5oXxPgRpoUs


    Shiny arrivals, kitco kitty, and big personal news.
    that 1994 coin reverse eagle is splendid, really a very nice pattern.

    Golditiki2+++

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