PDA

View Full Version : Stacking Copper...



Thx1138
08-30-2011, 12:51 AM
Hey folks, first post in this particular forum. (I think...)

I hoard nickels and sort pennies too, but am admittedly lazy and mostly get a few rolls of nickels when I am in town more often than I sort the penny rolls.

Although, I do like seeing all those pre-82 pennies. The copper looks more brownish than reddish like the plated zincers. (A hint for cherry picking.)

Why hoard these coins when it is illegal to melt them, at least for the time being?

I just hate holding paper and dislike my bank enough just to withold the extra electrons for spite.

I really havent looked for war nickels and figure there must be a couple in there somewhere, lol.

Also... I dunno, it's fun tearing open those rolls and seeing what might come out.

So far it's all been coin currency at least, no slugs yet.

What about melting Canadian copper and nickels for Americans and vice-versa for Canadians?

Maybe a bit of "trading" between our two nations?

There is probably some kind of law pertaining to this, anyone know?

Just like with the PMs, hoarding coin is inadvertant saving.

And... in a SHTF/ hyper-inflation I wonder how coin currency holds up?

Anyone know how Zimbabwe coin held up or Weimar coin?

Just my two copper pennies worth.

Thx :)

Ginkawa
08-30-2011, 08:20 AM
I am pretty sure the same rules that make it so you can't melt or otherwise refine pennies and nickels, also outlaw trading substantial amounts of them out of the country.

:(

on the why hoard them, I think the idea is basically that while you can't melt them for the time being, many people are confident that this will either change, or become irrelevant. either way, once that occurs, it will likely be too late to start hoarding them.

Mr Nobody
08-30-2011, 04:36 PM
There is already a company that is researching changing the metal content of the nickel and maybe even the zinc penny as we speak and is expected to address the mint on the research in 2013.

I think that one day the law will change and you will be able to melt nickels and pennies just as 90% silver can be melted today. I like sorting through the rolls just because I enjoy diffrent forms of money. I like finding canadian coins and wheats in penny rolls, heard about indian heads being in the rolls but yet to find one. And with nickels you get the obvious buffalo nickel from time to time and 99% nickel canadian coins, also the illusive war nickel.

I also love finding oddly worn/damaged coins and toned coins. I have a nickel that has blues/greens and yellows swirled on it. Could be AT or just sat in something before being picked up but I like it and keep coins like it in seperate storage.

Never researched coinage during fiat collapses like Zimbabwe, that would make a good study/read. I'm gonna look into that.

Legacy
08-30-2011, 09:05 PM
Copper is going higher.Patience grasshoppers...

Boldbill67
08-31-2011, 09:52 AM
Why dose everyone worry about the legality of melting Penny's, and, or nickles. I have a fairly large stack of 90%, and have never thought of melting one dime. Although I have sold a bit from time to time.

You can buy, and sell non melted pennies today. 1.5-3x face. 2x on the bay everyday. Of course that is not why we hoard. If, and when it gets to 25-30x face you will still be able to buy, and sell no melting necessary.

Ginkawa
08-31-2011, 01:28 PM
Why dose everyone worry about the legality of melting Penny's, and, or nickles. I have a fairly large stack of 90%, and have never thought of melting one dime. Although I have sold a bit from time to time.

You can buy, and sell non melted pennies today. 1.5-3x face. 2x on the bay everyday. Of course that is not why we hoard. If, and when it gets to 25-30x face you will still be able to buy, and sell no melting necessary.

I think its an object permenance sorta thing.

I think in large, its engrained that pennies aren't worth much, and that enough to amount to a substantial worth, is an enormous amount of weight and bulk.

so adjusting to the idea that in a post-apocalyptic scenario (or even not neccessarily SO dramatic), copper pennies as they are, could have a trading value more equivalent to say, what quarters are now, might be a very difficult thing for people to wrap their mind around.

I think its much easier to look at the people selling shiny kilo bars or whatever at triple face value, and think "I have a box worth of 95% copper pennies, thats a spot price of over $65. and if I wanted to buy that weight in shiny bars of pure copper, it'd cost almost $200!

of course its not really that simple, but object/conceptual permanence can be screwy sometimes.

personally I can totally imagine people like those here, with diverse copper penny, nickel, silver and gold stacks, in a post-SHTF situation, being the moneychangers and bankers and such of the new world. if nothing else, merely from having a sense of relative worths and stockpiles to work with.

average person won't have a clue what a... sterling silver dish, or whatever, would be worth in a practical sense. any barter on that, would be practically arbitrary. where people like those here, could check it, weigh it, ect, and trade a more comprehensible form of exchange for it.
then refine it or whatever into more coinage.

some people talk about how if things go to hell badly enough, people will just barter. but I think that most people are way too engrained into a currency/monetary mindset to do that functionally. not to mention that I think for most, theres a deep-seated romantacism about the idea of trading with pouches of coins and such. I mean I think if you gave someone the image of buying something by tossing a little pouch of gold/silver coins on a counter, they would like the idea in a way. envision feeling like an old timey knight or something like that.


got on a bit of a ramble there...

Thx1138
09-01-2011, 01:59 AM
Why dose everyone worry about the legality of melting Penny's, and, or nickles. I have a fairly large stack of 90%, and have never thought of melting one dime. Although I have sold a bit from time to time.

You can buy, and sell non melted pennies today. 1.5-3x face. 2x on the bay everyday. Of course that is not why we hoard. If, and when it gets to 25-30x face you will still be able to buy, and sell no melting necessary.

You know, that's a very good point!

I like Ginkawa's thinking too that a copper penny might be worth a quarter relative to today in a SHTF total collapse.

But no reason to melt them down now that I think about it.

My main reason for stacking coin is really just for a major SHTF and just inadvertant saving from there.

While they issue thousand, million, billion dollar notes our coin should hold some intrinsic value and I figure why not get it now at face?

Also, when bread costs $80 a loaf they will probably round to the nearest dollar and coins and those fractions might not even apply. ie: they will stop making coins or issue the new $5 penny..

Thx :)

Thx1138
09-01-2011, 02:22 AM
I think its an object permenance sorta thing.

I think in large, its engrained that pennies aren't worth much, and that enough to amount to a substantial worth, is an enormous amount of weight and bulk.

so adjusting to the idea that in a post-apocalyptic scenario (or even not neccessarily SO dramatic), copper pennies as they are, could have a trading value more equivalent to say, what quarters are now, might be a very difficult thing for people to wrap their mind around.

I think its much easier to look at the people selling shiny kilo bars or whatever at triple face value, and think "I have a box worth of 95% copper pennies, thats a spot price of over $65. and if I wanted to buy that weight in shiny bars of pure copper, it'd cost almost $200!

of course its not really that simple, but object/conceptual permanence can be screwy sometimes.

personally I can totally imagine people like those here, with diverse copper penny, nickel, silver and gold stacks, in a post-SHTF situation, being the moneychangers and bankers and such of the new world. if nothing else, merely from having a sense of relative worths and stockpiles to work with.

average person won't have a clue what a... sterling silver dish, or whatever, would be worth in a practical sense. any barter on that, would be practically arbitrary. where people like those here, could check it, weigh it, ect, and trade a more comprehensible form of exchange for it.
then refine it or whatever into more coinage.

some people talk about how if things go to hell badly enough, people will just barter. but I think that most people are way too engrained into a currency/monetary mindset to do that functionally. not to mention that I think for most, theres a deep-seated romantacism about the idea of trading with pouches of coins and such. I mean I think if you gave someone the image of buying something by tossing a little pouch of gold/silver coins on a counter, they would like the idea in a way. envision feeling like an old timey knight or something like that.


got on a bit of a ramble there...

Lol, I like that imagery. Little bag full of old coppers, good earnest money that no one has to question the value of...

Thx :)

jeffersonian
09-07-2011, 11:52 AM
Copper is going higher.Patience grasshoppers...

I agree, but how much. Is it worth stacking ounces? They are very cheap compared to silver or gold, and minted in USA liberty coins if you choose.

jeffersonian
09-07-2011, 12:21 PM
I think its an object permenance sorta thing.

I think in large, its engrained that pennies aren't worth much, and that enough to amount to a substantial worth, is an enormous amount of weight and bulk.

so adjusting to the idea that in a post-apocalyptic scenario (or even not neccessarily SO dramatic), copper pennies as they are, could have a trading value more equivalent to say, what quarters are now, might be a very difficult thing for people to wrap their mind around.

I think its much easier to look at the people selling shiny kilo bars or whatever at triple face value, and think "I have a box worth of 95% copper pennies, thats a spot price of over $65. and if I wanted to buy that weight in shiny bars of pure copper, it'd cost almost $200!

of course its not really that simple, but object/conceptual permanence can be screwy sometimes.

personally I can totally imagine people like those here, with diverse copper penny, nickel, silver and gold stacks, in a post-SHTF situation, being the moneychangers and bankers and such of the new world. if nothing else, merely from having a sense of relative worths and stockpiles to work with.

average person won't have a clue what a... sterling silver dish, or whatever, would be worth in a practical sense. any barter on that, would be practically arbitrary. where people like those here, could check it, weigh it, ect, and trade a more comprehensible form of exchange for it.
then refine it or whatever into more coinage.

some people talk about how if things go to hell badly enough, people will just barter. but I think that most people are way too engrained into a currency/monetary mindset to do that functionally. not to mention that I think for most, theres a deep-seated romantacism about the idea of trading with pouches of coins and such. I mean I think if you gave someone the image of buying something by tossing a little pouch of gold/silver coins on a counter, they would like the idea in a way. envision feeling like an old timey knight or something like that.


got on a bit of a ramble there...

I've always thought that the value could go up to .25 cents a penny or more in realistic value. They say that dollar has lost about 97% of value since 1970's. So this is not unrealistic.

This is what I think in a since, if the paper dollar is become that worthless, then a real penny made of copper would be worth about a dollar in todays dollars when the current currency fails. So to put this in perspective, 100 copper coins, or $1.00 face value could be $100.00's in todays money. That's insanely awesome gains, and obviously hard for people to wrap their heads around, but if studying past hyperinflation situations, and Gresham's law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham's_law this situation is not out of the question.

I think it's possible that the old coins will be used more commonly in a true hyperinflation situation, and the simplist value of .01 will set the tone for our new money revalued. .25 cents used to be able to buy you a lot, a unit of value is just that. It's just an illusion of what something is worth cause we all agree on it.

When and if we return to sound money, this revaluation should occur, and in my personal opinion the biggest wealth transfer to those that have metals and real tangible assets, (land, food, metals, raw materials, practical companies that make things, or in deman for something people want or need) will be the real winners, and those holding most paper, stocks (which don't make or produce), bonds, ect will lose to those that have.

Any thoughts on this?

chuckno
04-25-2012, 11:22 AM
Stacking pennies and nickels is how the poor can put awaqy some money for the high inflation days. They may not be able to afford $30-$40 a month but can maybe afford $1 a month. Without hyperinflation the copper cents will probably go to 3 cents value when economy recovers and demand for copper goes up. Having been extremely poor I know that getting even 3x for your coins is a lot of money. Wish I had all the silver I sold back in the 70s.
Also there is the appeal of getting more for 1 cent than 1 cent.

geomancer
04-26-2012, 12:37 PM
My thoughts on why the melt ban is a concern: Usually people who argue against stacking copper always say that "copper isn't a precious metal. It's an industrial metal." Well, if the pennies can't be melted then one of the primary markets for selling your copper won't be able to use it for anything and therefore won't want it.

I'm not convinced the melt ban would be lifted in any hyperinflation scenario. All of the incentive for the government in that situation would be to do everything possible to preserve whatever they could of the dollar in order to bail out the masses, not to reward a few clever people who were saving their pennies for a rainy day. Penny hoarders don't have much of a congressional lobby.

I personally buy the 1 pound bars but only when I can find them for $6 or less. People always say it's a waste of money to pay over spot, but IMO time is money. Sorting through pennies for an hour would have a minimum wage work value of about $7 per hour. That time could be spent doing something else which might earn money. The price of gas for driving back and forth from the bank is probably 4 or 5 dollars(depending where you live.) It's a wash if you ask me. Pennies do have the one big advantage of their intrinsic 1 cent value, which never goes away. I still think it's worth hoarding them though, because you never know. It's also fun. It's almost pathetic how excited I get when I come across a pre-1982 penny for my collection.

maxwellsilverhammer
04-26-2012, 12:47 PM
if/when they stop minting pennies and nickels from copper, the melting ban will end and they will be able to be melted just as the pre '70 halves and pre-65 90% coinage can be melted. that day is approaching rapidly most agree here. i do most of my sorting when i have nothing else to do before turning in at night after the work day ends. jmho

NCCPC
04-26-2012, 11:56 PM
I just noticed that one of the retailers I've done business with has lowered their premiums on .999 Cu.

Even so, 95% Cu Cents at a well known supplier provide Cu at $2.65 per pound, while the .999 Cu bars at another well know supplier come to $6.50 per pound.

I really really like the idea of a fine Cu bar. But, at a ratio of 5:2, I can't justify the bullion bars. Cents might not stack as pretty as bars, but hey!!!

Cents are where it's at ... at least for now.

chuckno
04-27-2012, 03:13 PM
The US Mint doesn't even want to make pennies anymore. Maybe someone could point out if they allowed melting it would cause a massive run on cents that stores would just round to a nickel versus trying to get 1 cent rolls.
Once stores and people adjust to it then they can stop making sense;-)