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trbsht
12-28-2010, 11:53 PM
China is cutting exports of rare earth metals by 10%. Is this good or bad?
Or is it neutral.

refrep
12-29-2010, 12:20 AM
I read somewhere that they were cutting rare earth minerals last month as well. I had even heard that Silver/Gold/and the like were not to leave the Country anymore... MO

nealeffendi
12-29-2010, 12:26 AM
China cutting exports of any commodity is bullish for PMs as it means that they don't want to swap physical for fiat.

Moonstruck
12-29-2010, 12:33 AM
They have been doing this for some time now. They want to encourage more high tec production to be done in their factories...

thod00
12-29-2010, 04:06 AM
It is straight forward mercantilism. They succeed because our politicians are too stupid, and too weak, to do anything about it. Back in the 19th century England banned processing of Indian fibre requiring it to be shipped to Britain for processing. This created jobs in England and profit when the cloth was sold back to them.

The idea here is the same. If you want to make something using rare earths, you must build your plant in China and pay taxes to China. The whole point about mercantilism is that it asymmetric. Free markets to them mean you open your markets, we keep ours closed. Thus they would scream about fair trade if Australia restricted their iron ore imports and demanded the plants be built in Australia.

If you want to import, say cars, into China you cannot without incurring tariffs. Illegal though they are supposed to be. Instead you must build a car plant in China. But that is not good enough you must bring them technology too. To ensure China can get at it, you must have a 50% local partnership. Then this partner sets up a second rival company using the tech they acquired from you. All orders are routed to this second company. You leave bankrupt and with your tech advantage gone.

Nobody says anything because they are worried about exclusion from the Chinese market. China signed up to the WTF rules, it just ignores them. There is a strong justification for kicking them out and placing tariffs on their goods. You cannot keep someone in the club that has no interest in it other than personal profit. Play fair or get out.

Quagmire420420
12-29-2010, 04:22 AM
It is straight forward mercantilism. They succeed because our politicians are too stupid, and too weak, to do anything about it. Back in the 19th century England banned processing of Indian fibre requiring it to be shipped to Britain for processing. This created jobs in England and profit when the cloth was sold back to them.

The idea here is the same. If you want to make something using rare earths, you must build your plant in China and pay taxes to China. The whole point about mercantilism is that it asymmetric. Free markets to them mean you open your markets, we keep ours closed. Thus they would scream about fair trade if Australia restricted their iron ore imports and demanded the plants be built in Australia.

If you want to import, say cars, into China you cannot without incurring tariffs. Illegal though they are supposed to be. Instead you must build a car plant in China. But that is not good enough you must bring them technology too. To ensure China can get at it, you must have a 50% local partnership. Then this partner sets up a second rival company using the tech they acquired from you. All orders are routed to this second company. You leave bankrupt and with your tech advantage gone.

Nobody says anything because they are worried about exclusion from the Chinese market. China signed up to the WTF rules, it just ignores them. There is a strong justification for kicking them out and placing tariffs on their goods. You cannot keep someone in the club that has no interest in it other than personal profit. Play fair or get out.



I agree, China is screwing everybody over and enabling American CLOWNSHOES politicians to spend and do other stupid things with borrowed money.

Tariffs on Chinese goods doesn't sound too bad, but on the other hand if they negatively impact my standard of living that is obviously undesirable from my perspective.

Quagmire420420
12-29-2010, 04:23 AM
In addition, it is DISGUSTING how China makes a legitimate industry out of manufacturing FAKE PRECIOUS METALS

999FINE
12-29-2010, 08:31 AM
I feel that this is bad for PMs as it will make the US seem stronger...When we cut exports..Everyone screams that our economy is weakening, and that we import everything..But when china does it, its a good thing? NO

thod00
12-29-2010, 11:46 AM
Default
its a good thing? NO

No it is not a good thing. They are the only supplier of rare earths and are thus in a monopoly position. By cutting exports of them two things will happen. The first is the price for the remaining supply outside China will rise. Then it will become obvious to the companies that they will need to relocate to China. Of course other countries could produce these minerals and did so in the past. The problem is China forced them to close. Its the oldest trick in the book. You target some industry and then sell at below cost using government money to fund this. This causes all competitors to go bankrupt. Then once you have the monopoly you raise prices to recover your money.

Copperhead
12-29-2010, 08:30 PM
No it is not a good thing. They are the only supplier of rare earths and are thus in a monopoly position. By cutting exports of them two things will happen. The first is the price for the remaining supply outside China will rise. Then it will become obvious to the companies that they will need to relocate to China. Of course other countries could produce these minerals and did so in the past. The problem is China forced them to close. Its the oldest trick in the book. You target some industry and then sell at below cost using government money to fund this. This causes all competitors to go bankrupt. Then once you have the monopoly you raise prices to recover your money.

Good post. Those who think they can compete with China using "free market capitalism" don't understand who or what they are dealing with.

torpedoman
12-29-2010, 09:20 PM
China is NOT the only supplier of rare earth minerals. The U.S. has plenty so does every other country they are not rare the term is used because they do not occur in veins or heavy concentrates like gold or silver but are widely dispersed and hard and expensive to mine. China does not want to export materials but finished products.Just good business. You want to see bad business try the new CFL bulbs that are now government mandated to replace your regular light bulb. NONE are made in the US all are made in CHINA yet the US mandates their use. Your tax dollars at work killing your jobs.

HardlyPeeved
12-29-2010, 09:28 PM
China is cutting exports of rare earth metals by 10%. Is this good or bad?
Or is it neutral.

I guess the rest of the world will just have to deal with it.

The lawyers who make everything expensive due to the toxics and waste issues, will have to put together a way to allow RE mining to come back to the Western countries...without getting sued out of existence.

Its the same thing for Nuclear Power...the lawyers make it nearly impossible to setup new plants and operate due to the various health and toxics issues.

As the world realizes we need RE metals then a way will be found to mine these in other western countries (like it used to happen)...without all the lawsuits.

999FINE
12-31-2010, 09:52 AM
No it is not a good thing. They are the only supplier of rare earths and are thus in a monopoly position. By cutting exports of them two things will happen. The first is the price for the remaining supply outside China will rise. Then it will become obvious to the companies that they will need to relocate to China. Of course other countries could produce these minerals and did so in the past. The problem is China forced them to close. Its the oldest trick in the book. You target some industry and then sell at below cost using government money to fund this. This causes all competitors to go bankrupt. Then once you have the monopoly you raise prices to recover your money.

Just to clarify i was saying its a good thing? then saying No...like no it isnt...Not say No? like a remedial question...but good info none the less

royphil345
12-31-2010, 11:09 AM
In addition, it is DISGUSTING how China makes a legitimate industry out of manufacturing FAKE PRECIOUS METALS

Now, it seems stealing designs from the companies they manufacture for and selling good quality clone products that use the exact same parts for much less is getting very popular. Serves the "globalist" traitors right I guess... They've definitely created a monster. We're screwed no matter what. Too late to fix this and compete. No money, no infrastructure, too many trade secrets were given away and Americans wouldn't consider working for a bowl of rice a day competing and winning. Wouldn't mind seeing the "globalists" go down right along with us though.

Legio Patria Nostra
12-31-2010, 12:02 PM
China is NOT the only supplier of rare earth minerals. The U.S. has plenty so does every other country they are not rare the term is used because they do not occur in veins or heavy concentrates like gold or silver but are widely dispersed and hard and expensive to mine. China does not want to export materials but finished products.Just good business. You want to see bad business try the new CFL bulbs that are now government mandated to replace your regular light bulb. NONE are made in the US all are made in CHINA yet the US mandates their use. Your tax dollars at work killing your jobs.

It is correct that almost every country has REE's ...
That's not the point ... point is none have the capability to extract those REE's .... China has 87 % of the world-production ... Japan and Australia have the rest .
If the US would like to extract those REE's themselfes ..it would take about 10years to get productive .... that's 10 more years being dependend on China ... and of course ...that is ...if China would be willing to provide us with the technology !!!!

In short ...China has the rest by the b*lls ....