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AlbyVA
08-31-2010, 02:15 PM
If two people agree to exchange goods or services for "Gold", does Tax Policy
apply? Will that business owe Sales Taxes on a transaction that did not
take place in dollars?

To add to that question, if I get paid in Gold as an income for being an
employee of a business, do I owe Federal/State Income taxes?

jayjay
08-31-2010, 02:50 PM
My guess as to the first part is, if two individuals, not in business, barter eggs for bread, no taxable event has occurred. If they are in the egg and/or bread business, then it is like a cash transaction. However, check with your state taxing authority.

As to your second part, yes indeed. Income from whatever source derived (wages) and in whatever form recieved (gold) is subject to reporting and possibly taxes.

Happy day to you. :)

Spock
08-31-2010, 02:55 PM
There is an IRS document on bartering.
I'm not even going to pretend to know what it says, but I can guarantee this: If its profitable, its taxed.
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=187920,00.html

mespe
08-31-2010, 03:29 PM
There's also a video :eek: your tax dollars at work,,, :D

funny the video doesn't mention if I trade a tomato for a potato, or an egg for cup of milk.

Hiring enough IRS agents will do the trick to fix the economy,,,

heck we can hire agents to look over the agents that are the look over agents,,, now to get someone to look over the government, i.e. the senators and the congressmen, the president, btw I wonder if the POTUS will deduct the expenses of the recent whitehouse remodelling,,,

AlbyVA
08-31-2010, 04:20 PM
How would you quantify the value of a transaction if its not priced in dollars
in order to tax it?


Now if a trade is done in Gold, I would assume they'll base it on the market
value of the Gold (in dollars) the day of the trade. But if its a Barter trade,
how do you tax that? I mean, if I give somebody a dozen eggs for a pound
of bread, how am I taxed? Do I have to hand over 2 eggs or a pinch of bread
to pay the tax man?

Better yet, what if its a barter trade for services? You mow my lawn and I'll
clean your garage. You'll need an army of accountants to figure that one
out.

AlbyVA
08-31-2010, 04:24 PM
Oh wait, the IRS says,


"The fair market value of the goods and services exchanged must be
reported as income by both parties."


But here is the kicker..... Lets assume you "only" barter and you've exchanged
goods and services worth $100,000 for the year. How do you pay your $28,000
in taxes if you've never collected a single nickel? Are you now going to jail
because you don't have $28,000 to pay the IRS with? lol

Mighty Mouse
08-31-2010, 06:49 PM
Oh wait, the IRS says,


"The fair market value of the goods and services exchanged must be
reported as income by both parties."


But here is the kicker..... Lets assume you "only" barter and you've exchanged
goods and services worth $100,000 for the year. How do you pay your $28,000
in taxes if you've never collected a single nickel? Are you now going to jail
because you don't have $28,000 to pay the IRS with? lol

Ha! That's a good one.
I'm gonna take a shot at answering your question, Yes, you are going to jail, or have your stuff auctioned off to pay your tax bill, or...

7thDAY
08-31-2010, 07:17 PM
My understanding on this important issue is that if you are one of those persons that volunteered into the priviledges of the Social Security system (the largest labor union in the country), then you owe the duty of playing by Uncle Sam's rules. If you don't like that, volunteer out.
We are getting closer and closer to that day when "no man may buy or sell without the mark"

Baggerman
08-31-2010, 07:28 PM
My understanding on this important issue is that if you are one of those persons that volunteered into the priviledges of the Social Security system (the largest labor union in the country), then you owe the duty of playing by Uncle Sam's rules. If you don't like that, volunteer out.
We are getting closer and closer to that day when "no man may buy or sell without the mark"

How do you suggest one volunteers out and still be employed? I no longer have a "job" so I am just curious.

7thDAY
08-31-2010, 08:51 PM
I spent several years back in the 80's trying to volunteer out and it can be done but isn't a good idea. When you are the 1 in 10,000 trying to be "free" it doesn't really get you anywhere. You really need to be able to able to live without dollars in order to be lawfully free of the system. Better to just shut up, stack your savings, be a good serf on the land, count your blessings, believe in the almighty, get yourself out of harm's way, and know that before long the whole stupid house of paper will collapse (like it always has throughout history).

Baggerman
08-31-2010, 10:11 PM
I spent several years back in the 80's trying to volunteer out and it can be done but isn't a good idea. When you are the 1 in 10,000 trying to be "free" it doesn't really get you anywhere. You really need to be able to able to live without dollars in order to be lawfully free of the system. Better to just shut up, stack your savings, be a good serf on the land, count your blessings, believe in the almighty, get yourself out of harm's way, and know that before long the whole stupid house of paper will collapse (like it always has throughout history).

Kind on my thought on the whole thing.

AlbyVA
08-31-2010, 10:27 PM
Ha! That's a good one.
I'm gonna take a shot at answering your question, Yes, you are going to jail, or have your stuff auctioned off to pay your tax bill, or...



Hmmmm, I wonder how many kids the IRS should be arresting for trading
Baseball cards? lol

FriedNietz
09-01-2010, 05:04 AM
The getting paid in gold thing has been tried recently with mixed results.
http://www.lvrj.com/news/46074037.html

AlbyVA
09-01-2010, 08:29 AM
The getting paid in gold thing has been tried recently with mixed results.
http://www.lvrj.com/news/46074037.html



You know something, this case just kicked off an interesting thought I
had in my head. Follow me and see what you think...


Lets assume you pay a worker a 1/ounce Gold Coin from the "US Mint".
Its "intrinsic value" is around $1250, but its "face value" is only $50.00.
Since the US Mint coin is legal tender, the amount of payroll taxes the
business has to pay and the worker claims on their taxes is centered on
the fact that the money is only worth $50.00.

There is no way the US Government could cite you for wrong doing when
you are literally using US Currency. Its not your fault if the intrinsic value
of that money is worth far in excess of its face value.


http://solanocoin.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/american-eagle-gold-bullion-coin.jpg

AlbyVA
09-01-2010, 09:40 AM
It looks like Robert Kahre didn't do so hot in court. I don't fault what
Kahre did, but he appears to still have broke the law in other respects.
He should have taken out payroll taxes based on the $50.00 face value
of each Gold Coin paid to workers.

As you can see by the convictions, none of them was because he used
Gold Coins to pay workers. Its was all because of other areas where he
slighted the law. Either it was payroll taxes or some other tax he didn't
pay.

So I'd say the concept is sound. You can pay workers or even other people
using US Mint gold coins that have a face value of $50.00. Ignore their
intrinsic value and focus on their face value when it comes to taxes.
I suppose you also need to make sure you are paying workers about the
min.wage. Cause a $50.00 gold coin means they can only work for
about 7/hours per Gold Coin.

Of course, those employees better be good cause what they are getting
paid (to keep their wages above min.wage) is about 1/oz per day or
about 260/oz a year. And 260/oz might be $13,000 in the eyes of the IRS,
but the intrinsic value of those coins are more like $325,000/yr.







Jury convicts business owner Robert Kahre of tax fraud

By Mary Manning

Friday, Aug. 14, 2009 | 5:54 p.m.

A federal jury found Las Vegas businessman Robert Kahre and three others guilty Friday
of several felony tax crimes, including conspiracy to defraud the IRS, tax evasion and
hiding assests.

Robert D. Kahre and his sister, Lori A. Kahre, each were convicted of intentionally and
knowingly conspiring to defraud the federal government, U.S. Attorney Greg Brower of
Nevada said.

Source: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/aug/14/jury-convicts-business-owner-robert-kahre-tax-frau/