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sevenmile
12-12-2008, 06:09 AM
see that platinum is now below gold

have only seen this once in the last twelve years

last time it happened, made a fortune on short gold/long platinum spreads

will do the same now

your own situation has to be evaluated in terms of your risk tolerance

pec2007
12-12-2008, 06:14 AM
good luck, i think you will need it.

all because platinum is rarer than gold doesn't mean its more valuable.

refrep
12-12-2008, 06:57 AM
According to the U.S. Mint/Treasury Platinum is more valuable. Just look at the faces of each coin

a 1 oz Gold U.S. Mint coin says "$50"

a 1 oz Platinum U.S. Mint coin says "$100"

Oz Waver
12-12-2008, 07:25 AM
Platinum never was or will be considered money.
It's main use is industrial, this has fallen considerably, alternatives are on hand. This is becoming the death nail of Platinum for a long time, unless new technologies require it and the world is all good, which it ain't.

When Platinum was over $2k I said Gold would be worth far more and it is now.

Don't bet on Platinum, this time you will lose.

johndaniels
12-12-2008, 08:29 AM
see that platinum is now below gold

have only seen this once in the last twelve years

last time it happened, made a fortune on short gold/long platinum spreads

will do the same now

your own situation has to be evaluated in terms of your risk tolerance

people miss the point that pt has the same monetary principles as gold. only its much rarer and used in industry. gold is really doing well, though.; i wouldnt trade off gold for it.

Oz Waver
12-12-2008, 04:57 PM
people miss the point that pt has the same monetary principles as gold. only its much rarer and used in industry. gold is really doing well, though.; i wouldnt trade off gold for it.

That fact that people apparently miss this 'fact' is incorrect, I disagree and say that plat is NOT money.

The mass see gold as money not plat, that's the point that everyone needs to understand. When J6P runs for the hills what's he gonna buy? Gold.

Gold is the whole over, platinum is for those with "edumatation" on rarity... Paladium is a bit rarer than plat. and both are 30x rarer than gold... but you've never seen the price ever reach that level.

Stick with gold and silver.

Musashi
12-12-2008, 05:07 PM
That fact that people apparently miss this 'fact' is incorrect, I disagree and say that plat is NOT money.

The mass see gold as money not plat, that's the point that everyone needs to understand. When J6P runs for the hills what's he gonna buy? Gold.

Gold is the whole over, platinum is for those with "edumatation" on rarity... Paladium is a bit rarer than plat. and both are 30x rarer than gold... but you've never seen the price ever reach that level.

Stick with gold and silver.

Hey Oz., could it be that anunakis dont eat platinum? maybe its an antidote for them thats why it is being discouraged ... ROFL.

Just a thought here...

chrisiden
12-12-2008, 06:08 PM
last month i traded gold for plat..
i have a gut feeling that plat will move up soon when they bail out the big 3 with Bush or Obamas help..
plus the fact that Platinum has a higher spot price fee than Gold..
why is that?:confused: :eek:

..and yes i know that gold and silver are monetary metals and platinum is not..
but what the heck..
we are approaching unknow waters now...plat could still hang in there with her brothers Goldie and Silvia..lol

citxmech
12-12-2008, 06:16 PM
I agree that Plat.'s big downside is that the world doesn't recognize it's value in the same way that gold's is recognized. [China, India, Middle East, etc.]
I disagree, however, that any auto bailout will bump Plat.'s price by much, or for long. That money [if it comes] may keep the doors open and the lights on for a while, but it isn't going to sell many cars - and the way that the economy is doing, I think that auto/industrial/jewelry demand will be low for years.

clinton666
12-12-2008, 08:43 PM
almost same price as Gold and that people are buying alot more Platinum wedding rings and necklaces than ever. She says that 37 percent of the wedding rings she sells are Platinum now and it use to be only 10-15 percent since the big selloff. She says Platinum because of price and recent popularity with celebs is getting to be a bigger percentage of her business all the time. Platinum jewelry demand is going up, plus the cost to mine is the $600-$800 level so I think we really close to a floor in the metal if not already.

mqracing
12-12-2008, 10:55 PM
I recently searched for the price levels of gold vs platinum from 1960 to present and wrote down the market prices for each metal in five year increments (1960, 65, 70, etc...) and only twice (using the specified five
year increment dates) over the last 48 years has gold exceeded the value of
platinum. In 1975 gold beat plat by $11 an ounce (161 vs 150) and in 1985 gold bested plat by about $26 (317 vs 291).

I'm bullish on platinum!!! As I see it gold is only about 20 percent off of it's all time historical high. We are in a period of deflation (not inflation) and the treasury would have to run the printing presses overtime to make up for the losses in the equities markets let alone the real estate markets. So... in a sense there is much less wealth right now--- and inflation is classically defined as too much money chasing too few goods. Currently, we have the goods but no willing money (consumers) for the goods--- hence deflation.

All things pass--- and I think all of the precious metals are decent storehouses of value--- my own hunch is that over a period of five years plat will do quite well.

MSL

Quicky
12-13-2008, 12:12 AM
almost same price as Gold and that people are buying alot more Platinum wedding rings and necklaces than ever. She says that 37 percent of the wedding rings she sells are Platinum now and it use to be only 10-15 percent since the big selloff. She says Platinum because of price and recent popularity with celebs is getting to be a bigger percentage of her business all the time. Platinum jewelry demand is going up, plus the cost to mine is the $600-$800 level so I think we really close to a floor in the metal if not already.
Hi Clinton ,
I certainly agree with you. Nice information that you have shared with us.
It was really very helpful for me.
Thanks!!!!!!

goldsurfer
12-13-2008, 02:41 AM
almost same price as Gold and that people are buying alot more Platinum wedding rings and necklaces than ever. She says that 37 percent of the wedding rings she sells are Platinum now and it use to be only 10-15 percent since the big selloff. She says Platinum because of price and recent popularity with celebs is getting to be a bigger percentage of her business all the time. Platinum jewelry demand is going up, plus the cost to mine is the $600-$800 level so I think we really close to a floor in the metal if not already.

Ask yourself why would the rich celeds choose Platinum over gold two reasons rarity and price based on industy. That's why Every woman wants it. That's why silver ring will get you slapped or dumped sad to say. How about white gold way less difficult to tool than platinum. Stuff is a ***** to tool into a nice little ring.
I would bet demand could go up or the drop in value could make it loss its luster who knows if rings are enought to drive the price up in a down economy. What realy fueled this metal was industy and that good as dead for the forseable future.
Mining this stuff is dead for a reason its deep in the ground and exspensive to
mine. Rings at these prices enought to justify mineing costs?

Oz Waver
12-13-2008, 02:57 AM
jewellery is a drop in the ocean, even if it were to double. Plat is difficult to use in Jewellery has poor lustre and unlike rhodium electroplating.

White gold is far more popular... easier to work with and far more beautiful. 18ct white gold is made by mixing 75% gold with 25% other metals such as silver and palladium.

White gold Australia wide is the most popular by far and palt demand is shrink according to jewellers here and especially in China town and Westfield BJ where the finger is on the pulse.

Zarkov
12-13-2008, 05:39 AM
Ask yourself why would the rich celeds choose Platinum over gold

Yes a while ago platinum was way more expensive

LOL..yes women like to be bought... and price not size does matter ! LOL

but now Pt is falling...
who wants to be yesterdays lady eh ?

mhugh18
12-13-2008, 11:50 AM
While there may be a short term spike in Pt if/when the Big 3 are rescued, I read in our paper this morning (from Michigan) that GM is idling 21 plants and cutting Q1 production 250K units, that alone is an enormous reduction in the demand for Pt. And, as others have mentioned, Pt is going to see its industrial role significantly deteriorate as auto production switches to hybrid, electric, and H2 vehicles.

Yes, there may be some quick money to be had in the short term if everything falls into place for Pt, but the risks are high. I wouldn't want the PM that is a store of my wealth dependent on the Big 3 and wedding ring purchases. Yes, Pt is rarer than Au, but if that's the sole reason for purchasing it, why not plunge into some rarer metals like Rh (Rhodium) or Ir (Iridium)? In fact, Ir is much rarer than Pt and can be purchased for around $400/oz. Demand is the key, not necessarily rarity...

This is a play for active traders, not long term holders or those accumulating for SHTF scenarios. Just my opinion...

pec2007
12-13-2008, 11:53 AM
Here in the UK the GM plants are offering workers 9 month sabbaticals on 30% pay.

I would be tempted to get some Pt but we have to pay 15% tax here which makes it alot more expensive than gold.

johndaniels
12-13-2008, 11:59 AM
That fact that people apparently miss this 'fact' is incorrect, I disagree and say that plat is NOT money.

The mass see gold as money not plat, that's the point that everyone needs to understand. When J6P runs for the hills what's he gonna buy? Gold.

Gold is the whole over, platinum is for those with "edumatation" on rarity... Paladium is a bit rarer than plat. and both are 30x rarer than gold... but you've never seen the price ever reach that level.

Stick with gold and silver.

my point is that in today's world, the principles behind both metals are the same. gold is in fact performing in the real market based on speculation, not reality...you are refering to the "speculation" that gold is money. Gold was money before nixon removed the gold standard. it is not money today; it is a precious metal, therefore the same as pt or pd. it doesnt matter what JSP thinks, gold is still a PM.

but just for fun, if pt is not money, how come the US american pt eagle has the (highest) face value of $100?

chrisiden
12-13-2008, 12:06 PM
my point is that in today's world, the principles behind both metals are the same. gold is in fact performing in the real market based on speculation, not reality...you are refering to the "speculation" that gold is money. Gold was money before nixon removed the gold standard. it is not money today; it is a precious metal, therefore the same as pt or pd. it doesnt matter what JSP thinks, gold is still a PM.

but just for fun, if pt is not money, how come the US american pt eagle has the (highest) face value of $100?

i often wondered about that too.. and the fact you can use it for your IRA..
maybe Plat is money and we dont know it?
....yet....
maybe its just acting on rumors or fears now like everything else does around here and Plat is just a bit shy and nervous...
so shes taking a little recess break and when she comes back with her makeup and new hairdue she will be ready to break out and shine again..
:rolleyes:

Oz Waver
12-13-2008, 05:13 PM
my point is that in today's world, the principles behind both metals are the same. gold is in fact performing in the real market based on speculation, not reality...you are refering to the "speculation" that gold is money. Gold was money before nixon removed the gold standard. it is not money today; it is a precious metal, therefore the same as pt or pd. it doesnt matter what JSP thinks, gold is still a PM.

but just for fun, if pt is not money, how come the US American pt eagle has the (highest) face value of $100?

Firstly the presupposition in your statement is AmericoCentric. Indeed in the US pt eagle has the highest face value... so based on this, your belief that it is seen as more valuable psychologically than gold, because it is on a US minted coin?
Aren't we forgetting the rest of the world that doesn't mint pt or care about it. Also there isn't enough pt on the market to be seen as tradable, especially when compared to gold and silver, or can be affected by the 'investment' market.

Here's an experiment take your gold and pt eagle and travel the world (look I've only been to around 20 countries)... then see what the average world populace will take as value?

Further using the 'speculation' is taking a position in a paradigm that claims to know better. I complete reject this premise and would place my bets that the world masses have got it right.

Gold as money... and the gold standard... yeah if you are talking about corrupt governments but when you go anywhere you can 'trade' (that's right, trade as in use as money) with gold in EVERY country... try doing that with any currency, you can't but you can with gold.
This means what? In the real world gold is still tradable and can be used as a form of exchange.

So try convincing people in China, Chad, Mozambique, Chile, Brazil, Pakistan, Iceland, Egypt, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Cambodia, Bangladesh, India, desert tribes, mountain tribes, Butan... .... ....
Try and tell them that because of Nixon that gold is not money but a PM and how despite this fact that although their communities have been trading like for generations that they have been in error for 40 years and didn't know about it. Then offer them your pt eagle to trade with...

I think they've got it right.