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View Full Version : Can anyone actually find any Platinum for sale



captbilly
12-04-2008, 02:18 PM
Kitco has made a big deal over their relisting of a wide range of precious metal products today, but I wonder if they actually have this stuff. Back in September when Kitco was still listing Platinum coins and bars for sale, I tried to order 50 1 oz. bars but they didn't actually have any. I tried today to order some platinum bars from Kitco but I can't even get anyone to answer the phone.

I am only wondering about Kitco showing availability on so many different precious metal products because nobody else seems to have these things in stock. I have been able to get a few hundred 1 oz gold coins and a couple of 50 oz platinum bars over the past few months, but only after much searching and a fair bit of luck, so it seems surprising to me that Kitco would suddently have all of these things in stock. I guess what I am trying to say is that listing the coins and bars isn't the same thing as having them.

Has anyone been able to actually get through and order any platinum or significant quantities of gold coins?

mike1983
12-04-2008, 02:39 PM
why would you want so much platinum? I would invest more in gold and silver, with a few ounces of pt and pd just in case they make a recovery, but INHO 50 ounces is way too much to be holding...

NolaM
12-04-2008, 02:52 PM
Maybe he already has a few 400 oz bricks in Gold and this is a small holding... grin
Kitco had to be selling them to somebody.... she says with a slight green tinge..

If you buy into the rare = valuable equation..
Plat has the potential....and it has shown this in the past, to outperform Gold.
But it is also exponentially more volatile than Silver so as long as it isn't a primary position...
Or heck... some guys like to live on the edge... to each his own.

Pamp suisse and OnlyGold are the only places I have seen it lately.
But it goes quick. Keep checking.

Anyone else got a source...?

captbilly
12-04-2008, 03:08 PM
why would you want so much platinum? I would invest more in gold and silver, with a few ounces of pt and pd just in case they make a recovery, but INHO 50 ounces is way too much to be holding...

I would "like" to have a few metric tons of platinum, but I can't afford that much. Everyone has a different financial situation and tollerance for risk, so everyone has a different notion of how much of each precious metal they should have int their protfolio. However the question still stands, does Kitco actually have platinum in stock? Does anyone else have platinum in stock? Anyone with recent experience in actually buying physical platinum? My own experience has been that with a great great deal of searching one can find small amounts (a few ounces here and there) that gets bought up immediately.

My last find was ten 1/2 ounce platinum eagles that were going for $120 per ounce over spot. They had just come in the door when I called the dealer. Most dealers simply told me to forget about buying any platinum because there just isn't any. I was able two find a few 50 ounce bars at a couple of places about a month ago. A 50 ounce platinum bar seems to be like a 400 ounce gold bar, as far as how they are used. 50 ounce platinum bars seem to be the major trader standard size, just as 400 oz gold bars are for gold. I am a bit concerned though that 50 ounce bars could be pretty hard to trade if prices go up as high as some people think they will.

dumbnbroke
12-04-2008, 03:11 PM
cni has 1/4 eagles for 251 if that interests you. they also have palladium 1oz pamp bars for 220 for anyone who wants to bite on that.

Carssman
12-04-2008, 03:29 PM
Just found this on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/950-fineness-Platinum-bar-1-troy-ounce-bullion_W0QQitemZ110321506914QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCo ins_Bullion?hash=item110321506914&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1309%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A3%7C294%3A50


He has other that have actual bids over what his "buy it now" price is...

seems fishy to me, Anyone have an opinion?

Also you think I would have to pay duties if coming into Canada?

metalhealthy
12-04-2008, 03:54 PM
Just found this on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/950-fineness-Platinum-bar-1-troy-ounce-bullion_W0QQitemZ110321506914QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCo ins_Bullion?hash=item110321506914&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1309%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A3%7C294%3A50


He has other that have actual bids over what his "buy it now" price is...

seems fishy to me, Anyone have an opinion?

Also you think I would have to pay duties if coming into Canada?

Personally fwiw I would never buy platinum that is not packaged and stamped from a reputable company,what about if you ever need to resell it?

captbilly
12-05-2008, 04:57 PM
So is everyone saying that they know of no source of platinum that is even close to Kitco's price on platinum Eagles? Everyone posting here seems to have only been able to find extremely small quanitites and at huge premiums over spot. I haven't had time to try to call Kitco today (if you can even get the phone to ring, they put you on hold for a very long time), but I still seriously question whether they actually have any 1 oz platinum bars for $880.

mqracing
12-05-2008, 11:25 PM
[QUOTE=Carssman;444192]Just found this on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/950-fineness-Platinum-bar-1-troy-ounce-bullion_W0QQitemZ110321506914QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCo ins_Bullion?hash=item110321506914&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1309%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A3%7C294%3A50


I wouldn't touch that.... notice he does say that his 1 ounce sheet is made from scrap jewelry. No hallmarks. Not assayed. Purity could very much be in question. My guess is that this would be very difficult to sell--- and you would probably have to sell below spot.

MSL

unalga
12-06-2008, 01:45 AM
Kitco has made a big deal over their relisting of a wide range of precious metal products today, but I wonder if they actually have this stuff. Back in September when Kitco was still listing Platinum coins and bars for sale, I tried to order 50 1 oz. bars but they didn't actually have any. I tried today to order some platinum bars from Kitco but I can't even get anyone to answer the phone.

I am only wondering about Kitco showing availability on so many different precious metal products because nobody else seems to have these things in stock. I have been able to get a few hundred 1 oz gold coins and a couple of 50 oz platinum bars over the past few months, but only after much searching and a fair bit of luck, so it seems surprising to me that Kitco would suddently have all of these things in stock. I guess what I am trying to say is that listing the coins and bars isn't the same thing as having them.

Has anyone been able to actually get through and order any platinum or significant quantities of gold coins?

NWTM has platinum

logicet
12-06-2008, 01:12 PM
NWTM has platinum

Do they have platinum, or do they claim to have platinum?

johndaniels
12-06-2008, 01:38 PM
all i know is that apmex has no standard pt american eagles;

i think the truth is, pt is a true precious metal that is used in industry... a low low price insures more industrial experimentaton as far as end uses..

its all good.

drax9
12-06-2008, 07:50 PM
Ask NWT mint how long you have to wait to get the platinum. At least 12 weeks minimum. They are an absolute joke.

The other joke is the price comparison between Pt and Au. There's a glut of gold out there if you want it which tells me it is highly overvalued. Pt is very difficult to buy but gold.... no problem. Plenty of it.

captbilly
12-08-2008, 12:39 PM
I will try again today to get through to them and see if they actually have any platinum, but it would seem from the comments to my original post that nobody knows of anyone who actually has a substantial quantity of platinum in stock for sale.

Karlus
12-09-2008, 02:09 PM
Ask NWT mint how long you have to wait to get the platinum. At least 12 weeks minimum. They are an absolute joke.

The other joke is the price comparison between Pt and Au. There's a glut of gold out there if you want it which tells me it is highly overvalued. Pt is very difficult to buy but gold.... no problem. Plenty of it.

Yeah, they will "lock in" your order and wait until March when the Mint decides to coin again. The salesperson said that if we see a spike that I could "sell it back" before delivery if I wanted.

Not to be jaded, but if there was a spike, I would imagine your order getting pushed to the bottom of the stack :(

Anyone know where I can find 1oz APE?

anthonydr2
12-09-2008, 04:43 PM
You mention you have some 50 oz bars. This is the standard contract size at NYMEX. You could buy a futures contract for cash tomorrow, get a receipt and show up at one of their contract warehouses (NY, DE) to pick it up as many 50 oz bars as you would like later this week.

Also, if Pt really spikes and you decide to sell the 50 oz bars you already have, the NYMEX may be the easiest / most cost efficient way for you to sell them as well. While they only accept certain brands/hallmarks, it's a pretty comprehensive list...

http://www.nymex.com/pla_fut_brands.aspx

PBR Streetgang
12-09-2008, 07:40 PM
Well, I finally decide to make my last purchase of platinum from the Mint and they are out! Damn. I wanted a proof coin and when I checked yesterday they still had some available namely the halves and quarters but now nothing!:mad:

Coldtrader
12-09-2008, 08:01 PM
Well, I finally decide to make my last purchase of platinum from the Mint and they are out! Damn. I wanted a proof coin and when I checked yesterday they still had some available namely the halves and quarters but now nothing!:mad:

I noticed the same as well. Seems like people ate up all the pt that was minted for 2008.

drax9
12-09-2008, 08:29 PM
There isn't any retail platinum to be found anywhere in the USA except the proof stuff that's way overpriced. I think it's much the same in Europe. I made my last purchase from Gold Avenue in Switzerland, but the commissions are high.

If you are in Tokyo, you could always walk into the Tanaka KK retail shop in Ginza and buy 50, 100 or 500 gram bars I would imagine.

metalhealthy
12-09-2008, 09:15 PM
There isn't any retail platinum to be found anywhere in the USA except the proof stuff that's way overpriced. I think it's much the same in Europe. I made my last purchase from Gold Avenue in Switzerland, but the commissions are high.

If you are in Tokyo, you could always walk into the Tanaka KK retail shop in Ginza and buy 50, 100 or 500 gram bars I would imagine.

Well you aren't looking very hard Kitco has platinum bars and so does Bullion Direct.

captbilly
12-10-2008, 01:53 PM
You mention you have some 50 oz bars. This is the standard contract size at NYMEX. You could buy a futures contract for cash tomorrow, get a receipt and show up at one of their contract warehouses (NY, DE) to pick it up as many 50 oz bars as you would like later this week.

Also, if Pt really spikes and you decide to sell the 50 oz bars you already have, the NYMEX may be the easiest / most cost efficient way for you to sell them as well. While they only accept certain brands/hallmarks, it's a pretty comprehensive list...

http://www.nymex.com/pla_fut_brands.aspx

I may have read the spreadsheet wrong, but it would appear that as of last week MYMEX had just over 1000 total ounces of platinum in their bank. That may well be enough for me, but surely not enough for all the paper trading that is going on on the NYMEX. In addition the complexity of buying physical metal on the MYMEX is really quite daunting for someone who only wants a few bars.

captbilly
12-10-2008, 02:01 PM
Well you aren't looking very hard Kitco has platinum bars and so does Bullion Direct.

Did you call and actually order any of this platinum at Kitco? I did get about 50 1 oz. bars from Kitco in September. I happened to call at just the momment that they got a sell from someone. On the other hand when I called back a few minutes later they still had eagles and bars listed but they didn't have any for sale. In addition I waited for over a month before the bars actually showed up. It was fairly obvious that the bars I bought weren't actually in stock at Kitco, just on order.

My original question was whether anyone had actually bought any platinum from Kitco in the past few days (since they started listing platinum again). I have tried a few times to get through and see if I could actually order some, but could never get anyone on the phone. As I said originally, listing platinum for sale is not the same as actually have any for sale. So far no one who has responded to my post has indicated that they actually were able to buy any platinum from Kitco.

captbilly
12-10-2008, 02:09 PM
I went to Bullion Direct's site and they do have 1 ounce platinum bars listed (I didn't check to see if they actually had any for sale) but their price is for $1010 oer ounce, that's more than $175 per ounce over spot. I will sell platinum for that price also, but who would be crazy enough to buy it, and what does that say about the true price of platinum?

dumbnbroke
12-12-2008, 03:37 PM
i got an email from APMEX, they supposedly have Pamp Suisse bars for $925, but say they may not ship before 1/31/09.

captbilly
12-12-2008, 04:27 PM
i got an email from APMEX, they supposedly have Pamp Suisse bars for $925, but say they may not ship before 1/31/09.


If they aren't shipping before the end of January then they almost certainly don't actually have the metal. I have made those types of deals with several companies, there is nothing wrong with it, but it's not the same as actually having the matal to sell. I think what happens is that the seller has an order in with one of their suppliers, who is promising to ship by the end of January. If the company you are buying from is reliable then I am fairly confident that you will get the bars (if you ordered any), but this is not the same as them actually having platinum to sell.

The point of this thread was to get some idea of how difficult it actually is to find physical platinum metal. It would seem from your response, as well as all the others, that the answer is that platinum is very very hard to find. If you are thinking of buying some physical platinum I would probably suggest going and doing it. I see no evidence to suggest that the market is loosening up at all.

metalhealthy
12-12-2008, 04:57 PM
If they aren't shipping before the end of January then they almost certainly don't actually have the metal. I have made those types of deals with several companies, there is nothing wrong with it, but it's not the same as actually having the matal to sell. I think what happens is that the seller has an order in with one of their suppliers, who is promising to ship by the end of January. If the company you are buying from is reliable then I am fairly confident that you will get the bars (if you ordered any), but this is not the same as them actually having platinum to sell.

The point of this thread was to get some idea of how difficult it actually is to find physical platinum metal. It would seem from your response, as well as all the others, that the answer is that platinum is very very hard to find. If you are thinking of buying some physical platinum I would probably suggest going and doing it. I see no evidence to suggest that the market is loosening up at all.


I think its pretty tight now and will only tighten more as production drops and the automotive demand picks up probably sometime next year though.

dumbnbroke
12-12-2008, 05:02 PM
well as I mentioned before, CNI has 1/4 eagles for $260, and right now list 1oz PAMP bars for 912. thing is you have a minimun order of 2 grand to beat shipping, so you can get 2 1/4 oz for 2084 shipped. that is avg 926.23 per oz and they do not list unless they HAVE it. it's only a matter of wire or check with them, check hold is 3 weeks. if you want NOW, call THEM cause they are on the west coast and still open. or you can order from other places and wait.

captbilly
12-13-2008, 03:44 AM
well as I mentioned before, CNI has 1/4 eagles for $260, and right now list 1oz PAMP bars for 912. thing is you have a minimun order of 2 grand to beat shipping, so you can get 2 1/4 oz for 2084 shipped. that is avg 926.23 per oz and they do not list unless they HAVE it. it's only a matter of wire or check with them, check hold is 3 weeks. if you want NOW, call THEM cause they are on the west coast and still open. or you can order from other places and wait.


I could be wrong but I believe that I called these guys a few weeks ago and they said that they would not accept any new customers. I may be confusing them with someone else because I called dozens of stores looking for platinum. The only other problem for me personally is that since I do live in California they charge 7.75% sales tax on non-currency (bars are not currency), which adds quite a bit to the price.

By the way did you actually call them and confirm that they have these bars in stock? I have seen platinum, gold, etc. listed on many many sites that didn't have any to sell. Sometimes they had run out, sometimes they had some on order, but most of the time they just had listings for metal that they did not actually own.

dumbnbroke
12-13-2008, 05:35 AM
I could be wrong but I believe that I called these guys a few weeks ago and they said that they would not accept any new customers. I may be confusing them with someone else because I called dozens of stores looking for platinum. The only other problem for me personally is that since I do live in California they charge 7.75% sales tax on non-currency (bars are not currency), which adds quite a bit to the price.

By the way did you actually call them and confirm that they have these bars in stock? I have seen platinum, gold, etc. listed on many many sites that didn't have any to sell. Sometimes they had run out, sometimes they had some on order, but most of the time they just had listings for metal that they did not actually own.

for someone who posts of intentions to buy if it is around you sure do come up with a lot of excuses to not even try to buy some. to answer your question, no I have not called them because I am not currently in the market, supposedly YOU are and are asking for tips. In my very recent past experience these guys are top shelf and would not be listing it if they did not have it unless of course they had within the last 15 minutes sold out and had not been able to update the website yet. the fact remains that there IS platinum around for sale for those who SERIOUSLY want to buy it, if that includes YOU, then YOU need to do some phone calls.

chrisiden
12-13-2008, 11:53 AM
Yeah, they will "lock in" your order and wait until March when the Mint decides to coin again. The salesperson said that if we see a spike that I could "sell it back" before delivery if I wanted.

Not to be jaded, but if there was a spike, I would imagine your order getting pushed to the bottom of the stack :(

Anyone know where I can find 1oz APE?

Platinum eagles.. make me an offer i cant refuse and its yours :)
i live in california.. but i will accept a bank wire only...
and i will send it overnite!
recently i traded gold for plat and need a little cash on hand..:)

captbilly
12-16-2008, 01:00 AM
for someone who posts of intentions to buy if it is around you sure do come up with a lot of excuses to not even try to buy some. to answer your question, no I have not called them because I am not currently in the market, supposedly YOU are and are asking for tips. In my very recent past experience these guys are top shelf and would not be listing it if they did not have it unless of course they had within the last 15 minutes sold out and had not been able to update the website yet. the fact remains that there IS platinum around for sale for those who SERIOUSLY want to buy it, if that includes YOU, then YOU need to do some phone calls.


I don't want to advertise my holdings, but I have already purchased a substantial quantity of platinum and gold over the past several months. I spent many many hours making phone calls to dealers, large and small, to find some small and large bars, as well as a few eagles. What I found was that very very few of the dealers who listed platinum on their websites, actually had any. This includes places like Kitco, Fidelitrade, Monex, as well as some smaller dealers, all of who listed the platinum on their site but didn't actually have any when I called.

I was able to find some platinum, but it took a probably tens of hours of time on the phone to stumble across someone who happened to actually have some in stock. Many of the dealers (Kitco included) won't actually tell you what they have, they will only tell you if they have what you want to order. This process makes shopping around more than just tedious, but quite stressful as well. It's a bit like shopping at used car dealers (I know because I tried it once with my daughter and it was a nightmare), you can't just see what they have without promising to order it if they do have it.

To get through to Kitco and actually get some platinum I had to call at least a dozen times, and each time I was put on hold for somewhere between 30 minutes to an hour. Many times I was dropped off hold after already waiting for close to an hour. Tulving keeps his site a bit more up to date and does indeed seem to usually have what he shows on his site, but he is fairly expensive compared to Fidelitrade and Kitco (although he has no comissions or shipping charges). But Tulving is also extremely hard to get through to. And by the way for those of you looking for small amounts of PMs, Tulving has a minimum of 20 oz of gold or platinum , and 1000 oz of silver, although he seems like a pretty cool guy. Fidelitrade is equally hard to get through to (busy signals, long holds, and rarely actually has what they have listed on their site), plus their shipping charges were ridiculous. I paid many hundreds of dollars for each package of a little over 100 oz.

I was hopping to find out what people's actuall experiences were with finding actual platinum for sale. I would love to find some reputable dealer with actual metal in stock at a reasonable price (I don't consider $100-200 per ounce over spot to be reasonable, and I didn't pay that much). I don't want to be in the position where platinum has to rise $100-$200 per ounce for me to just break even. I am happy to receive responses from people who have seen platinum listed on site that they believe to be reputable, but what I really want to know is if anyone has actually been able to order and receive their platinum, and what they paid for it.

dumbnbroke
12-16-2008, 06:33 AM
<snip>
I was hopping to find out what people's actuall experiences were with finding actual platinum for sale. I would love to find some reputable dealer with actual metal in stock at a reasonable price (I don't consider $100-200 per ounce over spot to be reasonable, and I didn't pay that much). I don't want to be in the position where platinum has to rise $100-$200 per ounce for me to just break even. I am happy to receive responses from people who have seen platinum listed on site that they believe to be reputable, but what I really want to know is if anyone has actually been able to order and receive their platinum, and what they paid for it.

Taking all this into consideration perhaps in the future you should list your qualifications for purchase, i.e. no premiums greater than X per ounce, no
high shipping charges, etc. Be as specific as possible because then you will not have people wasting their time trying to help you because what you are actually doing now is wasting peoples time who want to try and help but with all the issues you have on restrictions and the desire to get a price that is way below current accepted/normal prices it would almost be impossible to suggest a source that is probably going to be able to fill your present requirements. Thanks.

Powerkicker
12-16-2008, 07:14 AM
Taking all this into consideration perhaps in the future you should list your qualifications for purchase, i.e. no premiums greater than X per ounce, no
high shipping charges, etc. Be as specific as possible because then you will not have people wasting their time trying to help you because what you are actually doing now is wasting peoples time who want to try and help but with all the issues you have on restrictions and the desire to get a price that is way below current accepted/normal prices it would almost be impossible to suggest a source that is probably going to be able to fill your present requirements. Thanks.


Holy run-on sentence Batman!!! :eek:

Karlus
12-16-2008, 08:38 AM
don't want to be in the position where platinum has to rise $100-$200 per ounce for me to just break even.

this is the "volatility" premium that sellers want. You will not find platinum under the +$1XX range because platinum holders are fully understanding that Pt is oversold (I know the stuff about the catalytic converters...etc)

I have had some great luck finding private sellers as well as hit the "N***** Ex******" to get some orders filled.

It really comes down to how badly you want to hold platinum into the hyperinflationary rush....

Best of luck!

50plussilver
12-16-2008, 01:50 PM
Get a list of coin shows in your area.
You may find some there.

At the shows, talk to dealers and tell them what you are looking for and the price you are willing to pay.
Ask for advise on how to pick some up at a reasonable price.
Pick up their business card.
If they are out of state ask them if they will mail it C.O.D. or registered mail.
Give them your phone number and name, tell them to call when they have access to PT.

Post an add on craigslist ( for free )
Go to Ebay and get a list of the PT sellers Email addresses and try to work a deal bypassing the auction.
Some dealers have the name of their coin shop in the sellers name.
At coin shows, old copies of coin collecting newspapers are laying around for free. In the back there are numerous adds with phone numbers.
The internet should have a list of regional coin collecting clubs worth attending, for further access to leads.
(Also scan for estate auctions)

Hope this helps.

captbilly
12-16-2008, 03:50 PM
My original question seems to have gotten lost or I didn't make myself clear in in the first place. I am trying to find out if the spot price for platinum is reflective of the actual price people are paying. So if Kitco or Fidelitrade, or Monex, etc. is listing platinum at $80 over spot, but they don't actually have any, that price has no real meaning.

I don't want to go into great detail about my holdings, but I have a substantial position in physical platinum, as well as gold, and I am very interested in increasing this position, but not at a price that will require a 25% increase in spot for me to be able to sell at a profit. I appreciate any help that people attempted to give me in locating a souce of platinum. I was looking for a source that I could call and place an order for a substantial quantity of platinum coins or bars (50+ oz), at a price that is at least remotely related to spot.

Part of the reason for my interest is to buy more platinum and part of my interest is to see if platinum spot price has any bearing on the actual price people are paying. I suspect that I am like many others on this site in that I am not a full time coin of PM trader. I run a company and happen to have decided to invest in PMs. I have seen the posts where people have suggested that the NYMEX/COMEX would be forced to default if even 20% of the traders demanded delivery. I have even done my own research that seemed to show that NYMEX has just over 1000 oz of platinum to cover all the platinum trading that is taking place on their exchange (so there is no panic here, the same research shows that NYMEX has several million oz of gold in their vaults). I was asking the forum if anyone had any personal experience with recent purchases of substantial quantities of physical platinum, partly to see if there is really as much of a shortage as it seems.

If anyone has any recent experience or knowledge of any source of 50-100 platinum 1 oz. coins or bars, at the kind of prices that Kitco or Fidelitrade are posting on their sites (about $80 over spot), that is the information I am looking for. My personal experience is that I could not find any resonable quantity of platinum at any price, and I could not even find small quantites of platinum (a coin here and there) at $80 over spot.

hrdc69
12-16-2008, 04:11 PM
I second the idea of going to your local coin shows and keeping a eye out. This past weekend I went to my local coin show and a dealer had 16 one ounce platinum maples in the case. Apparently he had just bought them from a customer and he was selling them for $925 which was about a $100 premium over the $822 platinum closed at on Friday.

Not having that much extra cash around I asked if he would be willing to do a one for one swap with 16 GAE's. He agreed as he had a waiting buyer for the GAE's so all in all a good day.

ElScorcho767
12-16-2008, 04:17 PM
My local dealer has a roll of PT maples i think he is selling for spot+70...I picked one up back when it was at $1030. If you are in the DC/Richmond area i could be persuaded to share his info for a bottle of scotch!

Karlus
12-16-2008, 04:27 PM
My original question seems to have gotten lost or I didn't make myself clear in in the first place. I am trying to find out if the spot price for platinum is reflective of the actual price people are paying. So if Kitco or Fidelitrade, or Monex, etc. is listing platinum at $80 over spot, but they don't actually have any, that price has no real meaning.

I don't want to go into great detail about my holdings, but I have a substantial position in physical platinum, as well as gold, and I am very interested in increasing this position, but not at a price that will require a 25% increase in spot for me to be able to sell at a profit. I appreciate any help that people attempted to give me in locating a souce of platinum. I was looking for a source that I could call and place an order for a substantial quantity of platinum coins or bars (50+ oz), at a price that is at least remotely related to spot.

Part of the reason for my interest is to buy more platinum and part of my interest is to see if platinum spot price has any bearing on the actual price people are paying. I suspect that I am like many others on this site in that I am not a full time coin of PM trader. I run a company and happen to have decided to invest in PMs. I have seen the posts where people have suggested that the NYMEX/COMEX would be forced to default if even 20% of the traders demanded delivery. I have even done my own research that seemed to show that NYMEX has just over 1000 oz of platinum to cover all the platinum trading that is taking place on their exchange (so there is no panic here, the same research shows that NYMEX has several million oz of gold in their vaults). I was asking the forum if anyone had any personal experience with recent purchases of substantial quantities of physical platinum, partly to see if there is really as much of a shortage as it seems.

If anyone has any recent experience or knowledge of any source of 50-100 platinum 1 oz. coins or bars, at the kind of prices that Kitco or Fidelitrade are posting on their sites (about $80 over spot), that is the information I am looking for. My personal experience is that I could not find any resonable quantity of platinum at any price, and I could not even find small quantites of platinum (a coin here and there) at $80 over spot.

<strictly my opinion>

Part of the difference you are encountering is the basic underlying desires of an individual vs a vendor of metal.

The vendor does not necessarily have a "belief" either way and is interested in volume. They buy at x and sell at x+spread. The more trades the more profit. Good vendors have a hedge in place that if the price in metal goes up/down beyond the spread they bought they are protected by a short in the same metal.

An individual on the other hand holds a belief in "where its going." They may feel like "I bought at 1500 so I am not going to sell" or "I am buying at 800 because I think its a steal." Well other individuals hold that "belief" too and are not selling at x+spread, but have an attachment to the metal.

Thus the vendors get sold out quickly as its just transactions while individuals are much more challenging to get to part with their metal.

That said, I think as an individual you need to start thinking of metal purchases in terms of weight and much less in terms of USD.

If you are here buying metal you have already bought into the belief that something is fundamentally wrong with our currency and the way the economy works. Now the question becomes "what can I do about it".

The gold of metal purchases is to preserve buying power in the event of a currency default. This is a question now of how much metal you can reasonably get as opposed to how much you paid and sold it for.

There are plenty of other instruments out there for playing daytrading with than physical bullion ownership.

</strictly my opinion>

wampum
12-16-2008, 05:18 PM
I ordered some one half ounce platinum eagles from Kitco in early October to be paid for with a personal check. I started calling after the 3 week check clearing period had passed and was told there would be a delay. When I asked what year coins I would be getting they could not say as it is not a 'numismatic' type item.

On 12/10/08 (just about 2 months from the order date) I received a package from Kitco and a phone call to tell me that the coins had shipped.

I was pleasantly suprised when I opened the package and found that I received 1999 $50Platinum Eagle Proofs!

Worth waiting for...

Thanks Kitco!

captbilly
12-16-2008, 09:29 PM
I ordered some one half ounce platinum eagles from Kitco in early October to be paid for with a personal check. I started calling after the 3 week check clearing period had passed and was told there would be a delay. When I asked what year coins I would be getting they could not say as it is not a 'numismatic' type item.

On 12/10/08 (just about 2 months from the order date) I received a package from Kitco and a phone call to tell me that the coins had shipped.

I was pleasantly suprised when I opened the package and found that I received 1999 $50Platinum Eagle Proofs!

Worth waiting for...

Thanks Kitco!

Nice deal, similar to what happened to my order for a bunch of platinum bars from Kitco. They took forever to arrive, but they turned out to be old Engelhard bars still in the sealed package with matching serial numbers. But it does beg the question, why are they are sending this old, and in some cases collectable platinum? If there was new platinum available it wouldn't make sense to send much more valuable old stuff.

Another point in your story that also indicates a real shortsge is the fact that it took 2 months to recieve the metal. That either indicates that Kitco is unbelievably busy, or is selling metal as soon as they make a deal with a seller, even befor the seller actually ships the metal to them. No business would risk pissing off their customers by taking two months to ship if there was anything they could do about it. And similarly it is hard to believe that if Kitco was really selling so much that they had a two month backlog in their shipping department that they wouldn't eventually hire some more people.

I tried calling Kitco to order some platinum a couple of days ago. I got put on hold for 20 minutes and then they just dropped my call. That would seem to indicate a tremendous upsurge in the volume of calls that they still haven't been able to resolve months after my earlier dealings with Kitco.

Comet
12-20-2008, 11:20 PM
My local dealer has no PT in stock and very seldom has any for sale. 20 years ago it was very easy to obtain.

chrisiden
12-21-2008, 12:32 AM
Apmex has only 445 Bars left...
http://www.apmex.com/Category/171/Platinum_Bars__Rounds_999_Fine_1_Gram___10_Oz.aspx

captbilly
12-21-2008, 04:51 PM
I got bars for about $40-$50 over spot a month ago, coins were about $80 over. The thing that scares me about paying way over spot is that when the shortages of coins and small bars eases nobody will buy at more than a few dollars over spot (or maybe for a few dollars under spot). The over spot premium is a bit like paying a load on a stock fund, now you have to make back the load before you are actually making any money. A 10% - 25% load on a fund would be unthinkable, but that is what these over spot premiums on platinum amount to. I was nervous about paying 5% over spot, but 12%-15% for a bar is really scary.